Say fellows, can anyone help with the case dimensions for the 25-06 Actley Improved with a 40-degree shoulder? A picture would truly speak a thousand words. Also any tips on reloading techniques to use or avoid, I was planing to neck size only after fireforming. And I�ve heard that on 40-degree shoulders it is best not to go with any thing less than a full (not a hot) load. Other words no cream a wheat or pistol type load with a wad of some sort. To truly get the 40 degree shoulder correct, the pressure in moderation, had to be there? For any and all help on getting started in the right direction, thanks before hand. JD
Say Big Stick, is there really someone/place that sells quality formed cases???? JD

[This message has been edited by jjdero (edited 03-03-2002).]

jj..I am looking for the same info. I am wanting to go to 25-06AI and am having trouble finding loads to start with. I even ordered the P.O.Ackley Handbook and it has lots of good info, just none on 25-06 Ackley Improved loads. You can go to www.angelfire.com/nm2/gilamonster/ackley1.html . This site is an individual who claims 25-06 AI has 8% greater volume than a standard 25-06, but produces nearly 10% more velocity. No loads are listed though. Help us guys!!!

If your chamber was cut properly and you don't have any experience in fire-forming, the best way to do it is to fire factory .25/06 ammo in your rifle. With respect to loading for your rifle after the cases are formed, their are a lot of good reloading manuals you should be reading BUT a good starting place is with loads for the standard .25/06....the max load listed for the regular chamber is a good place to start working up loads for your Ackley version..just make sure you use the same components the manual uses...if not drop down a bit more to start. HINT...anyone who says 8% more powder will give you 10% more velocity isn't telling you everything..he's using a longer barrel and working at pressures that are way too high...the most you will get will be 2% to 4% if everything else stays the same.

ANOTHER GOOD PIECE OF ADVICE...take reloading information and advice from the internet with a grain of salt...there are a lot of wannabe experts and you can hurt yourself if you don't check and double-check what you read.

[This message has been edited by DB Bill (edited 03-03-2002).]

All my photo servers went tits up,or I'd post a picture or two.

I form with bullets,as opposed to COW. Mainly because I like to shoot and practice doesn't bother me. Should you wish to cut to the chase,you can purchase formed 25-06Ackley cases.

Anyhow,I shoot 100gr Core-Lokts in front of Re-22,to form my cases. I use R/P brass,57.5grs Re-22 a CCI Lg Rifle primer and a moly Core-lokt,for 3200fps. Shoulders are crisp,pressures sedate and accuracy exceptional. I like to form with a bullet into the lands,for an added measure of headspace control.

My formed cases,have an average capacity of 73.6grs of water. It is a very promising gain,as the "regular" case is of 66grs capacity.

Great starting data for formed cases,is the maximum loads listed for the "regular" 25-06.

There is no Black Magic involved. It is a very nice case,that boosts capacity enough,to realize a nice increase in velocity. I very much like the cartridge and find it very forgiving to work with.........

I have a 280 ackley which is similar to a 25-06. Get a Nosler #4 reloading manual and fireform your cases as they suggest in any of the ackley loads. Fireforming the way they suggest (using the fastest burning powder in a light load with the bullet deeply in to the lands) you will be blowing out the shoulder and not streching the case around the web. If you just load them and fireform, you may end up getting casehead separations under moderate to high pressure loads. I know, been there and done that. Once your fireform by the method recommended, start with a grain or 2 under max and continue upward a grain at a time until you get to your max load for your rifle. This will probably be somewhere between 5 to 8% greater that max listed load. When you get it to shoot I would be interested in your load and velocity.

Thanks for the response, guys. I was feeling comfortable starting with max loads for the 25-06 and working up and you all have confirmed that. I really don't have any idea what kind of performance I should expect, as this will be my first experience with Improved loads. I am not a serious benchrest shooter, but I am a serious hunter looking for that little "edge" of flatter trajectories and heavier bullets. Thanks again and I will report my findings. I am thinking about 22-250 AI also!!! GREG

I have a pair of 22-250AI's also. It too,is a good cartridge.................

Big Stick. You seem to have multiple rifles chambered for the Ackley Improved rounds. On the average, what percentage of increase in performance have you gained from going to the AI?? Have you rebarreled with custom barrels and "tighter" twists rates to achieve results that you are happy with? I am struggling with using the existing barrels with the existing rates of twist? Am I over-analyzing what should be a nice, little(?) increase in performance??? These are not expensive, custom rifles that I am referring to and I am trying to justify spending the money, if the return-on-investment is going to be minimal. thanks..GREG

The percentage of increase,has to do with the parent case's design. The more body taper and slower the shoulder angle,the more capacity(improvement)will be yielded. So it varies from cartridge to cartridge. In the larger cases,it takes a higher percentage of increase,to discern substantial velocity gains. The 25-06AI is good for a 10% gain in capacity,that is substantial in my estimation. The chronograph bears that out.

Twist rate dictates the window of opportunity you have,for projectile selection. All my 25's,are twisted 1-10". I've had great results with a myriad of projectiles,in that twist rate,in that bore size. 75's-115's are capably handled. I never had a desire to try heavier weights,in that diameter.

My theory for punching out the existing barrel,is simply how well it shoots a bullet that I'm interested in. So I've punched out existing Factory tubes and built numerous others with high end S/S blanks.

So take your 22-250 for example. Most are twisted 1-14" and that will stabilize all 55's and some up to 60-63grs,depending upon specific profile(length). If your existing 22-250 is capable of accuracy that excites you,using a bullet you favor,I'd surmise it to be a prime candidate to Improve. If your hankering is for performance unavailable to your existing tube(higher BC projectiles,not stabilized currently),then you have no option other than to rebarrel in a twist that is in accordance to your desires. The quicker the twist,the longer the bullet it will stabilize(higher BC's).

Most my experiences have been based on Rem 700's,though I've built on most everything available. Typically,a good shooting Factory tube,will shoot even better after being Improved. Part of that a properly cut chamber,the balance the typical action blueprinting that is done while rechambering. Were you to opt to punch out an existing tube,I'd recommend having the action squared up. It is a one time expense and money well spent. Should you desire another barrel or shoot that one out,all you'd need is the barrel installation at that time.

I've some dirty accurate(that is GOOD) Factory tubes,that are punched out to Improved chamberings. Most Factory chambers are shoddy. You can build a hell of a sound rifle,utilizing a Factory tube that has a proven accuracy potential. Many will dismiss that notion,but I have many of them and beg to differ.........

Big Stick. Thanks so much for your reply. You have confirmed some of my amateur assumptions!!Theories are good, but I always like to hear observations from actual case histories. I agree that a 10% increase in case capacity seems substantial,for the 25-06 in AI. Do any of your 25's in AI approach 257 Weatherby Mag velocities?? The 75-115 gr bullet range you mention is dead on for my needs/applications. Mine are Rem 700's and I think you make a sound argument for squaring up the actions. Thanks again for sharing your insight and knowledge. GREG

The 257Wby is my favorite cartridge,I've built three of them so far. The 25-06AI is about 150-200fps behind it,in capabilities.

I love the 75's in my 25-284's,at a little better than 3750fps. I shoot lots of V-Max for practice and Hunt the 75gr X bullet hard. 100's will go 3400fps. That is my favorite short action chambering thus far. Currently,I'm contemplating a 257WSM on a Rem 700 short.

The 25-06AI is capable of 3550fps,from a 24" barrel,with 100's. That is approaching 257Wby territory. I prefer the 100gr XLC in both and they are an amazing performer on Game.

The 25-06AI is a very good cartridge. Brass is both readily available and inexpensive. So are dies. I built mine as a lightish weight,general purpose hunting rifle. It excels in that arena. The rifle is superbly accurate,of mild recoil and really sizzles down range.

Though the 257Wby is my first love,the 25-06AI makes a hell of a lot of sense and certainly is no slouch in comparison..............