Hodgdon touts their Extreme line of powders as being more consistent across a wide range of temperatures. Do those of you who have tried these powders agree with their assertion?

I can only state my observations with H4831SC. It exhibits a fairly typical 2 fps/deg. F. These data Match Sierra's test data pretty closely.

I've used all the powders in their Extreme line. They seem far more heat tolerant and don't seem to vary as much as others, particlarly the double based powders. I like them, yes I agree somewhat with their assertion.

[This message has been edited by Bob338 (edited 01-15-2002).]

Hodgdon extreme powders tend to produce lower spreads of velocity while chronographing loads. I shoot in weather from 20-85 degrees. H4350 extreme really didn't change chronographed velocity that I could detect within the error of my chronograph. I use Hodgdon extreme powders when possible. Reportedly, they have better lot to lot consistency.

The temperature stability is not nearly as good as Hodgdon would like you to believe. In some cartridges, a powder will be very temperature independent, and in other cases, will vary all over the map. Their advertising is probably over the line for false and deceptive advertising, because it says that it will always give you the same performance, hot or cold, not mentioning that in many cases, this is FAR from true.

I have done careful statistical tests in hot weather and in cold, and have the temperature coefficient for several loads in .223, .308, 6.5x55, and 30-06. If you use H4350 in a .308, you're in the sweet spot, and it has practically a zero tempco. Use it in a .223, and your temperature stability is WORSE than commercially sold Remington mil ammo. In the 30-06, H4350 has a somewhat better tempco than AA4350, enough that I do spend the extra $3.50 per pound to get Hodgdon. In the Swede, the difference is not very big, and I shoot the AA4350.

So the bottom line is that if you get good temperature stability out of Hodgdon, you've been lucky. In some cases, it does work. But making the general statement that Hodgdon does is just plain wrong.

'Scuse me... that was Varget that has a good tempco in the .308, and not in the .223.

So when is it considered Extreme powder, I have some H4350, and H4831, I bought about 8 years ago, is it Extreme Powder?

To GSF1200,

If it is the 'extreme series', it will say so on the can.

To everyone,

H4831SC is 'extreme'. I didn't find it to temperature insensitive at all. I have clocked 3-5 shot groups in temperatures between 0 F and 95 F. From 70 F down to 0 F, it looses roughly 2 fps/degree. This is fairly typical for extruded powders.

That said, it is no worse than any other extruded powder. It is still my favorite powder for the 6.5 swede and .270 win. I have been very happy with its performance. I am more impressed with its metering in my powder measure. In fact it throws 50 grain charges +- .05 grains from my LEE perfect powder measure.

I am in complete agreement with Denton re: the Advertising Ploy -- its smarmy at best. But then, I seem to remember a 7 mm match bullet (168 gr.) that never hit the paper in agreement with its stated BC. Later they retracted their BC rating and blamed a faulty skyscreen or other instrumentation ... Yeah, and I am the POPE!

IMO, marketing = Snake Oil Sales!

[This message has been edited by Scott H (edited 01-15-2002).]

I took the Hodgdon boys to task about new published data for the 45/70 using this extreme version of H4198. Seems while this new stuff is "exactly" the same speed as the old- this loading gained around 140 FPS- all conditions the same. My original inquiry wasn't rec'd too well- I went back at them and got a low tail wagging response about old vs new data and a lotta rot.

Hodgdon went out of their way in an old manual I have to make other brands of powder appear inferior to theirs. That was it for me- I haven't bought a manual of theirs since and only use H products when I have too. My take is they must think all handloaders are stupid.

Some of you are probably aware that these powders are Australian powders and we have been using them for years.

They are made by Australian Defence Industries who make our military ammo.

I have not tested them for temperature variation across a chonograph so can only pass on a general observation.

In Australia we frequently shoot in our summer. We tend to shoot from vehichles and ammo is sitting in the vehichle all day. Australia's outback has a very strong radiant heat. That is everything gets extremely hot to touch.

Many years ago it was common for shooters to talk about problems they had with extraction but these days you don't seem to here the same sort of talk. The majority of Australians do use these powders.

So perhaps they do work.

Mike

I posted a Question to Hodgdon last week, they have never answered my email, Accrate answers with hours, so does Sierra.