I'm looking for something in that weight to load to about 2300 to 2500 fps MV for my 11 y/o son.

We've shot reduced 150s in his .308 RSI Ruger, but something with even less recoil would help. I don't want to use the X bullets at that low velocity. I wish Nosler made a partition in 125 gr.

Before I just take a guess I thought I'd see if anyone has experience - wondering if any of the standard cup/core bullets in that weight range are better or worse than others?

I thought about getting him a .243, but I'm trying not to spend that much.

TIA,

Sam

My suggestion for a new shooter (any shooter for that matter) is a GOOD set of ear plugs. Once that is settled, if you can find a supply of good 115-130 grain cast bullets, I'll bet 500 or so over a light loading will get him comfortable with the gun and unconcerned about noise/recoil.

That said and done, I would then move to make up a load using Seafire's Blue Dot methodology and 125 NBT's for a hunting load.

Just my opinion, and you know about opinions.

Sierra makes a 125 grain JHP specifically for the 30-30 and whitetail. I've taken 8 or 9 deer with that bullet at 2450 fps or so from a 20" barrel. Penetrates broadside, destroys necks & heads, and is accurate too. Speer makes a 130 SP similar but a little more streamlined. They shoot very well too, but I have no game experience with them. I suggest the Sierra without reservation for whitetail. I don't know if they still make them, but Sierra had a 135 grain spire point in .308 for single shot pistols that I used in a 7.62X39 Sako with good deer success also.

Sherlock touched on your solution. There are several 130gr soft points out there for the 7.62x39 designed to work in the 2300 fps range. This is just the ticket for your purpose.

I have a RSI in 308, and have loaded 130 speers in it. I regret that I did work with this before the computer and don't have that load data at hand. I am fairly certain it was H322 load, but would think any relatively fast powder would do. Because of the short barrel on the RSI, I'd suggest that you have the young man wear ear plugs plus muffs. Kudude

PS: My full house load of the 130 Speer was my best load in a HK 91 I had. Shot a clover leaf at 100yds with irons. k-d

Sam One of brothers decided he had to try 130 gr bullets in his 308 on deer. I loaded the 130 gr Hornady bullets and they made a terrible mess of the meat. I later tried the same bullet in a 30-30 (Savage 99) at about 2500 fps to fill some doe tags. they worked quite well on broaside lung shots. Hope that helps

130gr TTSX from a 300 Savage has beem wicked good on deer.

You guys are a wealth of info. Nothing like the voice of experience. I'll pick up some Sierras to try first, as they've always given good accuracy for me. Thanks to all.

Sam

The sierra 125gr and Hornady 130 gr bullets have been excellent for me on whitetail. I use these in my 300 savage contender barrel. Both are very accurate and expand well on the deer I have taken. My MV in the 14" barrel is right around 2550fps.

Although, IMO, you can't go wrong with the 243. I started out at 5 years old shooting a 6mm, which is basically the same. Recoil is minimal, even for a small kid. Plus, the 6mm/243 can take any whitetail anywhere with the 100gr bullets. I still use mine and have never lost a deer to it.

Good luck choosing, I'm sure your son will have lots of fun and fond memories with you, shooting his first gun.

I have had excellent results with 125gr Nosler Bal. Tips with 49.5gr of Varget in a 20" barreled .308 at 2850+/-. You might try loading down just a tad for your son. When you load down a Bal. Tip you significantly reduce its frangibility.

Hornady makes a 130 Gr. Spire point bullet labeled SSP which stands for Single Shot Pistol. It's designed to work in guns like the Contender pistol at the velocities you mentioned. I use them in my 30 Herrett. Should work fine for reduced loads in a rifle.

I would load the .308 130gr TTSX with Varget.......I shoot them in my 300WM at 3450fps with little recoil so they should be well managed in a 308Win even at standard velocities.

So far .5 MOA or better and 2 one shot kills on little Southeastern deer. Massive devastation and consistant blood trails.

I love this combo.

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=405210

I used the 125grn ballistic tip to take this doe at 278yds with a 7.62x39mm AR

I have loaded 150gr bullets designed for the 30-30 in a 308 for an adult that wanted less recoil, the velocities were just above 30-30 specs.

Also I and my 11 year old nephew have used the Remington 125gr Managed Recoil loads on several deer and wild pigs with excellent results.

Your reloads with the lighter bullets should work just fine.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
Also I and my 11 year old nephew have used the Remington 125gr Managed Recoil loads on several deer and wild pigs with excellent results.

+1 on those and the Federal 170 gr Low Recoil loads for close range farm country whitetails. I've also used 300 Savage and 307 Winchester data in 308 cases under 150s (meant for the 30/30) for mild deer loads. Be sure to cut a stock to fit your boy properly and let him put his own rustoleum camo paint job on it; don't forget a serious one inch recoil pad while you're at it. Thanks for helping a new hunter get started right.

quote:

Originally posted by Krochus:
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=405210

Good showing. Now I know what you look like roger

nordrseta

My wife and I use the Federal 170gr low recoil 170gr 30-06 loads in our drillings for deer and pigs. They work great as well.

You just do not need full power 30-06 to shoot deer or pigs, even BIG pigs under 100 yards.

Exactly. When you put your bullet in the right place, very little power and much less Magnum rounds are needed

I started my kids at age 11 with a 25-06 with the but cut shorter to accommodate smaller stature. It was a great investment. My son is now 22 and he shoots any caliber with no concerns about recoil. My daughter still uses her 25-06 but we have replaced the stock with a standard length.

I don't have any problem with reduced recoil 308 loads. I just thought that starting the kids on a smaller caliber made good sense.

Have used the Hornady 130 grain flat base soft point in my .30-30 and it works great.

Hi all. I have had good luck with 125GR. Serria Pro-Hunters, Win. Case,CCI LR primers.3130 43.5 grains. Will put 10 rounds in a 1 ¼ “group, with my Vanguard.
The two deer I have shot with it dropped dead right there.Good load, mild.

My sons low recoil load for the .308 was a 125 Sierra pro hunter pushed by 40 grains of IMR 3031. Very pleasant to shoot. If you look back a few pages you will see a topic by me on "a .308 bullet penetration test". I shot one of these in my test and it really suprised me how well it held together and penetrated.

i haven't yet read through all of the replies, but one thing to keep in mind is sam's location. a texas whitetail looks like a german shepherd with antlers compared to a maine whitetail, which looks like a small elk.

if using a 125-130-grain bullet, i would recommend one that is stoutly constructed IF you want two holes. if you want something that will open fast and blow up a lung and probably kill right there, these 125-130s might work, i don't know as i have never used them.

i'm jsut saying that in the forest going after big whitetails, i would prefer some penetration - a 150 grain would provide that.

as for the recoil, he won't notice it in the field. a few things that you can do include loading them one at a time for him and giving him an empty chamber once in a while (helps teach to manage flinching) and wearing earmuffs to reduce the noise. these will help.

As for noticing recoil in the field, I would have to agree with that statement. A middle of the road 150 load should serve the purpose well as long as he has some lighter loads to practice with. Don't even tell him you are changing loads on him, just do it.

Not all parts of Texas have "german shepard" size whitetails though. While that statement does hold water with hill country and perhaps south Texas bucks, up here in the northern panhandle a decent buck can very well run into the 250 lb range, and I've seen mulies push over 300. Not trying to start a fight or anything, just saying that is what my experience is based on, not the smaller deer.

jtp - i meant no insult and hope that you know that- i was simply going by the pix i have seen and also by accounts from folks i know who have been there. i appreciate your setting the record straight and will keep that fact in mind!

Hey, no problem at all, and didn't necessarily mean to "set the record straight," so to speak. What I meant was just that the experience I have with the 125 on deer was on pretty decent size animals, and it should correlate fairly well with what he is trying to do. There was no offense taken whatsoever.

Personally I think that there is a lot of great advice here.
Yet to sort of combine some of it into a plan I think would first require that we take into account the max range that your son might shoot at.
I would imagine that at that age your going to be trying to set things up so that he has a great shot at success, so my guess is that your looking at under 100 yard shots preferably, perhaps as far as 150.

At those ranges with a 308 you really don't need a lot of velocity as the drop is not going to really start to play that big a factor until you get out past 200.
So personally I would go ahead and load a little heavier bullet such as a BT 150 at even lower velocity.
Say 2000 to 2200 fps max.
That bullet will still expand, and at those velocities will penetrate like no tomorrow.
Sight him in 1 inch high at a hundred and he can pull dead on out to about 175 and it will damn sure kill any sized deer you might run into.

If you are going to load 150gr bullets down to 2000 or 2200fps use the 150 grainers designed for the 30/30.

I loaded some of these years ago for a buddy [grown man] who wanted a lower recoil load for his Ruger 308 International to hunt deer on our lease.

He got excellent results.

quote:

Originally posted by TCLouis:
...I would then move to make up a load using Seafire's Blue Dot methodology and 125 NBT's for a hunting load...

Hey Sam, I'll strongly disagree with any and ALL the seafire blue dot loads. seafire has already caused two over Pressure incidents(that we are aware of) with one of the rifles totally blown to pieces. Plus people besides me are beginning to come forward to say they have seen the Erratic Pressure in the blue dot loads, just as I have.

Stick with down-loads shown in the Manuals. The factories have done exhaustive testing on their loads with $$$Millions$$$ of Test Equipment to be able to provide good SAFE down-loads. All the Manuals have them listed.

The Hodgdon folks even have a 60% of MAX Rule when using H4895 that is just excellent. You can read about it on their web site or in one of their Manuals.

Talked to a buddy who's daughter was using some of the H4895 down-loads and they could not be more pleased. Excellent accuracy and tolerable recoil. If a person is too young to handle this level of recoil, then they are too young to be using the rifle.

Best of luck to you and your son.

While Hot Core and I disagree on the use of Blue Dot and this has been burned into the ground on this forum, I can say Blue Dot is not the only tool in the shed...

I've used loads with SR 4759, IMR and Hodgdon's 4198, 2400, both 4227s etc...

125 grain ballistic tips will penetrate as deep as a partition any day, when the MV of the round is kept under 2700 fps MV...

not used on the grand circuit much, but the Speer 125 grain TNT also works excellent on a lot of deer, with the MVs kept under 2700 fps..

Sierra makes a good 125 grain SP that works well..

Speer has several options with 130 grain bullets...

even the old Hornady 110 grain SP works better than folks think, especially if loads are kept under the magical 2700 fps...

I have dissected some of those managed recoil loads that Remington sells, they are using IMR 4198 powder or something similar to its burn rate...

try 30 grains of IMR 4198, H 4198 or RL 7 with a 125 or 130 grain bullet in the 308.. ( these loads are floating around and have been factory tested for pressure.. to make those happy that need that security blanket)max for these powders is around 37 to 39 grains for 150 grain bullets, so they will be safe at the 30 grain mark...

with SR 4759, try starting out at about 22 grains and work up to about 27 grains of so..27 grains is the max load of SR 4759 with 150 grain bullets, so you will be safe using lighter bullets by a fair margin...

all will be accurate in my experiences...

skip Hodgdon's 4895 youth loads... they are not overly accurate, nor consistent... they also seem to have a much larger retort to them than the above, which can intimidate younger or new shooters..

I have no clue why Hodgdon is pushing them, when they can have excellent results with their own 4198 or IMR's which they sell, along with SR 4759...it is a marketing decision.. more than based on lab results...