I don't own any reloading gear, but bring components to a friend's to reload.

For several years we've been reloading for my 300 Winchester magnum and using a mix of plated Federal and non-plated Federal brass, some Winchester and even some Imperial brass.

I wonder if there is an appreciable difference in loads we make that is created by using different brass?

I have had some inconsistent sighting in experiences and I just thought it was me, not the gun or the cartridge but I'm starting to question that.

That mixture of brass will almost certainly give you different points of impact due to different internal case volume and neck tension. Also be careful that a load that is ok in one brand will be overpressure in another

quote:

Originally posted by Hublocker:
I wonder if there is an appreciable difference in loads we make that is created by using different brass?

There can be, but you'll have to test to verify whether this is the case with the different brands of brass, load and rifle you use.

Case volume can vary quite a bit between brass of different brands. I would *not* recommend mixing brass brands to anybody serious about accuracy! Quite apart from the fact, that unless a particular load is tested with a particular kind of brass, you won't know if this combination is safe.

- mike

It's common practice to segregate your brass when you reload. As far as your mix is concerned, only you can tell. Shoot a group or two using the unplated brass and then shoot a group or two with the plated stuff and then shoot a group or two with it mixed and see what you have.

Unless you're running over the ragged edge of disaster, the difference between case capacities isn't great enough to cause a over pressure situation.

This post addresses two of my pet peeves--firstly--anyone who reloads someone else's ammo is asking for trouble unless they are incorporated with insurance and a good lawyer--the other peeve is -----


Recently, some very well respected folks in the BR community opined that there was nothing to be gained from segregating brass by weight apropos of accuracy. These folks were talking about trying to shoot aggregate groups in the .1 MOA range at 100 to 300 yards. Keep in mind that these folks are anal retentive obsessive compulsive types who will shun any practice that does not aid in the .1 MOA goal.

That being said, those same folks were talking about premium brass of one (usually Lapua) or two (usually Lapua or Norma)brands. I imagine we have all found that there is a lot more weight variation between lots of standard grade brass and even more between lots of different brands of standard grade brass. Still, shooting for a deer or moose brisket under 600 yards does not require .1 MOA repeatability.

I have found another reason--ok I was told by a real old timer when I was a sprout- that there is another reason to segregate your brass be it rifle or pistol. This has to do with the idea that there is less variation between lots than there is between lots of different brands--especially if you deal with retired military brass, which could be used in machine guns like .308 or 5.56mm or--well you get the idea.

At some point in your re--or hand--loading experience, you will become distracted from your task while loading or otherwise have doubts as to the actual powder charge in a cartridge or two. This happens to all of us-hopefully not often- but it does happen. Anyone who tells you that it has not happened to him--and claims to be a long time handloader is a liar and a cheat and probably steals pacifiers from infants when their mothers are distracted at the grocery store.

When that time comes, ands it will, and you have all the same brand of brass in your batch-- you have only to weigh the cartridges and look closer at any that are 5% or more different than the average weight. If you cannot figure out what 5% of the weight is-- you have no business loading ammunition. I have weighed thousands and thousands of cases and have found that very very very few if any cases of a particular brand--no matter how cheap weigh 5% less or more than the average of 100 cases. Mainly, but not always, we'll see squibs in handgun loads because the lack of a grain or two of powder is a bigger change in a 5 grain load than in a 40 grain load that could be used in a rifle. But, a double charge, used by a person trying to save $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ by using a fast powder to get more loads in rifle cartridges, will be a lot more dangerous to the shooter, his family income and his health.

SO if you have 20 LC cases and 12 Rem cases and 15 Win cases and 13 S&B cases and you get lost-unless you take them all apart again--and the true cheakskate is cheap with his time and will not do this--- you are well and truly---F---ed--

If you want to load whatever--it's up to you--but the squib or the double charge WILL happen to you at some point. If you are lucky you will be able to get the bullet out of the barrel after a squib without damaging the gun. If not, or if your rifle blows out the chamber due to a double charge--you'll negate in an instant any money you saved by using crapola brass of any brand that you happened to come across.

I'll turn the soap box back over to those folks who think otherwise.

Three different cases, three different loads, three different points of impact.

I'd sell the plated, but that's my opinion.

BR shooters do so many things "cause everybody else does" that its sometimes hard to seperate the chicken from the feathers. I've also noticed at the last couple of matches I was at, that some of them are getting away from cleaning their rifles between every relay.
FWIW, I have a sack of new Dakota .223 brass (made by Lapua) and it has .00 tolerance. In weight and length. And my Lapua Match brass has such a low variation from low to high as to be a non issue. In actuality though, I don't weigh brass. There are too many other factors in reloading that affect acccuracy that it's pointless, IMO.
To harken to the beauty of a single stage press and a rather stodgy, pendantic approach, once you've reloaded you block of cases and before you seat your bullets, it is wise to hold the block under a strong light and make sure that all of the powder levels are pretty even. And, in loading bottle neck rifle ammo, it's best to use a powder that fills the case to where a double charge can't happen. FWIW, I don't reload for any pistols.
While I've never had a double charge in a case, I've had a few sneak by without any powder. I yet to have one of those push the bullet out of the case.

FWIW.

I am currently working on a load for a 7 WSM. Winchester Western brass needs one half grain less of 7828 to get the same velocity as Federal brass.

I reload 4 brands of brass for my 270 Winchester. I run through them in batches of 50 to 80 at a time. I have to re-zero my rifle each time I switch from one brand of cases to another. Also I ran through a batch of Federal cases that the rifle just did not like (accuracy) - I discarded that batch.

So my advice is to, Stick to one brand of cases when reloading for rifle if possible. If not, reload and shoot each brand of cases as a batch (i.e. Don't mix'em up).

quote:

Originally posted by RaySendero:
I reload 4 brands of brass for my 270 Winchester. I run through them in batches of 50 to 80 at a time. I have to re-zero my rifle each time I switch from one brand of cases to another. Also I ran through a batch of Federal cases that the rifle just did not like (accuracy) - I discarded that batch.

So my advice is to, Stick to one brand of cases when reloading for rifle if possible. If not, reload and shoot each brand of cases as a batch (i.e. Don't mix'em up).

+1 roger

I've found that most of the time there are different points of impacts between brass brands but sometimes there is none. That's true even with cheap Remington and Winchester stuff. Only testing will tell.

I think the higher the pressure, the more difference there will be.

I don't sort low pressure rifle or pistol brass.

Bruce

I once had a load who gave two groups 2.5" apart from each other. Checked the cases all norma some marked .308win some just .308 . The cases marked 308win had pressure signs.

Thank you.

After shooting two Roosevelt elk, a moose, a mule deer and 8 black bears with my loads with mis-matched brass, I was wondering if I could improve my shooting by sticking to one brand and type of brass.

I try to stick with one brand for each cartridge. 75% of my brass is Rem and Win, the rest is Hornady (.458 Lott and .470 NE), Starline (handguns), and Norma (Wby cartridges). I learned when I first started handloading 25+ years ago for a .243 Win that I was shooting a lot of groundhogs with at the time that Win brass was a little thicker than Rem and had a bit less case capacity and what was max in Rem brass could be too hot in Win brass and that mixing brass also affected group size. I have always made it a practice to segregate my brass and when I work up a load if I need to change brass makers later I reduce the charge and work up while looking for problems.

quote:

Originally posted by Cane Rat:
I learned when I first started handloading 25+ years ago for a .243 Win that I was shooting a lot of groundhogs with at the time that Win brass was a little thicker than Rem and had a bit less case capacity and what was max in Rem brass could be too hot in Win brass...

Funny, I have found just the opposite...Winchester offers more case capacity than Remington.

To offer a comment to the OP's question: if you're not anal about small groups and can kill all that big game with the reloads you've been using, keep on doing what you've been doing...it seems good enough.

Elk, deer, and bear are all a tad bigger than 1 MOA. And, as has been discussed in here many times, you don't need a MOA rifle to be a successful hunter. but those REAL 5 shot MOA targets are nice to look at and they give you an added degree of confidence. If you adhere to the KISS principle, using one brand of brass just eliminates one more variable.

Now we can start a 50 page thread about which brass is best.

Hub, there are differences in how or what people shoot. Even on a 100 yard target you can get a decent group with two different brasses in the same load. Move out to 2 or 300 yards and one decent 100 yard group can become 2 better groups or stay one decent group or become a ragged group. If you have the time and inclination load 5 of each and shoot each one on a different target. Don't rezero each load, just shoot the group. You may or may not see a difference in group size or point of impact. The difference could be something to the effect of each load shooting .5 moa from POI in different directions and 1 to 2 moa groups. Or two of the three brasses might shoot the same poi but different groups. These are small changes that you could see on paper but under 200 yards you may not see on minute of beast. If you have different ammo performance and are trying to sight in with a mixed lot then you are chasing your shot with each sight change.

By the way, what are you locking hubs on?

Funny thing about brass.

I won an Oregon State HBR Championship match with a tight-neck FL 308Win. To show my ignorance of such things, I used one each, DWM, NORMA, Federal (nicke), LC89, and Rem UBR case for record scores.

Won the 100 Yard match, won the 200 yard match, won the Agg and the State Match.

Taught me a lesson.

Rich

quote:

By the way, what are you locking hubs on?

1995 Nissan XE 4x4

I miss camping in hte winter. I'm running a couple of Jeeps and rebuilding one.

Rich, that's quite a brass collection.

Rifle accuracy is all about eliminating variables. Shooting the same brand and lot of brass just eliminates one of the many variables. There are definitely differences in different brands of brass, not only in thickness and weight which influences capacity, but also in alloy and degree of annealing, but if all you need is minute of pie plate accuracy then as long as you keep pressures safe it doesn't make much difference.

I like to have minute of teacup at 200 metres, then I'm okay.

Not only do I sort brass, I weigh it out and keep it in lots according to how many times it's been fired. But we're looking for sub MOA, seriously sub MOA.

Still, it's good practice to sort out by headstamp. (Some brands have different headstamps.) And it's easy to keep the brass in "lots" -- unless you go to the range and don't shoot up all the stuff you loaded in a lot. (Never heard of such a thing!)

Fewer variables means more accuracy.

Rothke, sounds good but (to use your words)serious accuracy starts with a serious rifle. And with a factory rifle, which is what we're kinda talking about here, you have a diminishing return that runs out before you get to the "serious MOA" you speak of.
No matter how much book keeping you do, nor how many things you weigh, nor how many logs of 4350 you cut in half to create the perfect load, there is only so much there.
After you have learnt a resonable degree of reloading, you best time is trigger time, not the time you spend angsting over point XXX differences in case weight, bullet weigh and how far off the lands your little jewels are.

BTW, what sort of rifle are you shooting for your "serious sub MOA"? And, what do you call "serious sub MOA"? Also, is this "serious sub MOA" a wallet group or is it something you can repeat over and over?

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
...I have a sack of new Dakota .223 brass (made by Lapua) and it has .00 tolerance. In weight and length. And my Lapua Match brass has such a low variation from low to high as to be a non issue. In actuality though, I don't weigh brass. ...

Then how did you determine they had .00 tolerance?

I'll go out on a short limb and guess - "In actuality though," you Weighed and Measured them.

Uh oh, got caught with my hand in the cookie jar. I had a batch of the Lapua Match stuff and a batch of the Dakota stuff that was made by Lapua and supposed to be TOTALLY prepped. Out of curiousity, I meassured some of each to see if the Dakota stuff was any different than the straight Lapua. I didn't weigh all of either of them but every piece of Dakota brass I did check was exact and the Lapua was damned close.

As I've said before, when folks are starting out, they should weigh, measure, and sort everything so they can learn what is important and what is merely busy work. And, hopefully drop the busy work. But some seem to cling to it regardless of how idle it is.

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
...when folks are starting out, they should weigh, measure, and sort everything so they can learn what is important and what is merely busy work. And, hopefully drop the busy work. But some seem to cling to it regardless of how idle it is.

That "cling to it" would be - TaDaaa - me!!!

quote:

Originally posted by swampshooter:
Rifle accuracy is all about eliminating variables. Shooting the same brand and lot of brass just eliminates one of the many variables. There are definitely differences in different brands of brass, not only in thickness and weight which influences capacity, but also in alloy and degree of annealing, but if all you need is minute of pie plate accuracy then as long as you keep pressures safe it doesn't make much difference.

< Very true. Depends on how much work you want to put into your brass prep. http://findarticles.com/p/arti...04/?tag=content;col1