Anybody ever notice that annealing increases runout in the initial loading? I am not saying this as a fact, I think I may have noticed this and was wondering if anybody else has.

What is run out!
bill r

Bill,

Runnout is how off center your bullet is loading into the case. There are tools to check this. One type holds the case and turns it while a dial indicator is set on the bullet to see how much it is off center as the whole cartridge is turned. Imagine if you chuck a cartridge, base first, in to a drill and spinning it. You should see the bullet tip spinning true.

The theory is if the bullet is "crooked" when chambered and fired it will enter the bore crooked also. You know what that will do to accuracy.

Joe

quote:

Originally posted by b beyer:
Anybody ever notice that annealing increases runout in the initial loading? I am not saying this as a fact, I think I may have noticed this and was wondering if anybody else has.

yes , it has been noticed . common sence

I think I may be noticing it a little more now, as the cases that I just annealed are cases that I made up out of 300RUM cases and are now only about half as long as they were. The case body are about .016 while the necks are turned to .0095. Possibly the dramatic difference in thickness between the neck and body are causing irregular movement when heated. They were annealed on a Light machine and should have been heated very uniformly. They should streighten out when fired.

I want to anneale some 17 cal cases , I saw what I thoght were coloring of brass having been heated through annealing, in the neck area when i first loaded them .
If I made a mistake and annealed a case twice would i destroy the case ? however now after shooting the cases and cleaning I don't see the coloration as apparent as i did before would the darkend metal loose its color?

It doesn't hurt if the heat goes into the shoulder area, just don't let heat go down the case towards the head. You have to remember that now the brass is very soft and if your expander plug is hard to pull out, it will bend the shoulder and increase runout. This happens even with a hard unannealed case if it is sized too far and expanded too much so you can imagine what soft brass will do.
It is hard to get an even anneal all around the case too. I spin mine slow as I heat. The case head is in water and I made a little turn table with a pan on it. Some scrap wood and a bunch of parts and a motor from an old VCR. I use a voltage control to spin at the right speed so the water doesn't spin out. I put a little form in the center that holds the case dead center. It's slow but it works.

I've found that if I anneal zero to low runout cases after I have sized them, then they wind up with run-out I can not live with. Back to the sizer they go.

If I am fixing to anneal a set of cases, it is always done after they come off the range before sizing.

I have messed with all kinds of annealing methods and have not come upon one that satisfied me until aquiring a Ken Light machine. These things are great.

I generally anneal after 4 firings for cases like 308. Two for the hornet. Seems to me that after annealing, cases of the same lot that are then sized have a smaller range of neck diameters. Now I know if you poke such a case into a "sloppy big necked" seating die you get runout. But if you use something like a Wilson or Forster precision die you get absolutely minimal runout with good reloading practices. My measurements suggest to me that f'l dies do not induce the runout in the loaded end product, the seater does, assuming the sized down neck is not too small.