I have two rifles with copper fouling, a stock .338 Win Remington 700 w/24", and a .350 Remington Mag. with a 22" Shilen barrel. One shoots 225 Hornady's the other 225 Nosler/Sierras. The .350 was built for me, so I know it has less than 200 rounds, the .338 was used, but throat looks good. I can look down into the barrel(muzzle) and easilly see copper streaks on the lands of both rifles. The .350 was broken in by me with a Shilen type method of cleaning after every shot=10, then 3shot groups.

The theory is that all rifles look like this, but these calibers easilly permit me to see into the barrel due to the diameter?????????

I have used JB's extensively in the .338 to no avail. I have also used Barnes CR-10 and Iosso in both rifles. These didn't work. The CR-10 I did not leave in the barrel longer than 10-15 minutes.

I have since tried Butch's Bore shine. Yes, I am getting blue fouled patches. I was befoore also, this is just easier to use. I am leaving this sit in the barrel for about an hour. It is taking me days to clean these two guns and there is not noticeable removal of fouling looking down the bore.

I've probaly put 400-800 strokes of JB in the .338 on tight fitting patches. Opinions on this cleaner go either way, but I may have put an Ultra-polish on the bore that may be screwing things up, but it showed copper before I started.

Both guns shoot honest 1/2 MOA..........It just really bothers me to see the copper in there. I don't hardly shoot them to practice because I feel "limited" to the number of rounds before it really gets fouled to the point I can't fix it.

Anyone have any tips or suggestions?

Brad

Couldnt resist!

Never heard of this bad a problem with two quality barrels.
Try sweet 7.62 cleaner and use plastic brushes and not copper brushes.
good luck gj.

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[This message has been edited by gj (edited 03-12-2002).]

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quote:

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Originally posted by ricciardelli:
First of all, I bet you are "over-cleaning", and secondly, I bet you use brass brushes...

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Agreed.

Been there, done that!

~Holmes

I shoot plently of Savages, all of them good shooters. I know that their bores are said to be really rough and would expect this type of copper in those barrels, I just didn't think these barrels would show that kind of copper.

The Lilja responses are odd. I have my barrel in already for a 6.5 WSM. If this barrel fouls, I'll be pretty pissed. I thought Dan hand lapped these for a while. I thought that was part of what I paid for? Oh well, I just need some reassurance once in a while. I am one of those guys that read everything, and if it makes sense and comes from one of the writer I think is reputable, I go with it. Actual hands-on, and rifle rounds down range are not nearly as much as some. I'm just a 30 year old kid.

I also don't care for nylon brushes. I believe nylon is actually more abrasive than bronze. Just witness all the effort that has gone into making fishing rod guides that nylon monofilament won't cut into.

Secondly, looking down the bore don't really tell the truth(shiny streaks on the land always look like copper), I suggest you roll a patch into a roll and put it in the muzzle, push the patch roll slighly into the bore and let the light hit the white patch, the light will reflect and let you see bore condition of the muzzle area more clearly.

Hope you will find that your rifles have been clean all this time.

This rifle shoots patterns, not groups. I mean 4 to 6 inches at 100 yds with a 3x9 scope,(factory rem 140 corelockt). I'm going to try to lap it with iosso or JB. If that don't do the trick, then I may try to fire lap it. Last resort would be a rebarrel.

You say this procedure was in the Rifleman?? Seems like bad advice to me.

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if you run, you just die tired

RSY

[This message has been edited by RSY (edited 03-13-2002).]

I would use a chamber plug from Midway, stand the rifle up with the barrel clamped in my workmate, and fill it with Shooter Choice. Let it soak overnight.

Drain and clean with a bunch of patches. Follow with JB's on a patch wrapped around a one caliber undersized brush.

If that doesn't work, follow with the Outers Foul-Out rig.

The only reason I reccomend this procedure is that it is such a pain in the ass that it will cure of the urge to remove every last trace of copper from your bore.

Rick Jameson who writes the precision reloading column for Shooting Times did an interesting test a while back with a bore scope. Net net, he was amazed at how much work it took to remove all the copper. Also, I learned that just because the bore is copper free at the muzzle, you probably still have copper right ahead of the chamber where fouling is worst.

CLEAN TO SHOOT, NOT SHOOT TO CLEAN!

OR

BULLETS DON'T KILL BORES, BAD CLEANING DOES!

I also understand that I may be screwing the barrels up by "over-cleaning." That's why I don't use JB often. Maybe it's great, but maybe it's not. I've heard several thing that go either way.

This leads me back to the original theory of mine that all barrels would show copper on the lands if cut down the center. I only look in my own rifles.

Foul-Out was going to be my next step.

I don't think anyone LIKES to clean a gun, but I don't want to shoot these guns for fear of the aftermath cleaning.........and that's not right.

Jamison is one of the gun cranks that I follow, guess I missed that one, or I would have said "F" it along time ago. To all that tried to help me out, thank you all. I am going to load some rounds for the both of them, and shoot the hell out of them. If they start to drop rounds, I'll just wrap some fine grit sand paper around a tight brush and expedite the clean up.

Cooper fouling robs a good barrels accuracy.
Rigourous scrubbing (Drill driven brush-you are kidding ruins barrels.

Wally

Hotdog Like I said MY NEPHEW bought the gun, without consulting me first. It appears as though someone else tried your method on it, hence the scratches. It looks like about a 5/16X24 thread! And like you said, you do what you want ta with your guns, I'll pass thankyou.

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if you run, you just die tired

The drill wouldn't be going with the grain of the metal!! Thats bad.