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I see a world of requests for reloading of the posters guns..Buy a couple of good reloading books, much better starting point than the contradictory internet.. I couldnt get by without those books for a starting point to fine tune my loads to an accurate max.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | ||
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I subscribe to Ammo Guide and Load Data. Neither is very expensive, both are (IMO) very rich resources. Hodgdon is free as is Shooters Reference. Both are very useful. I've got a great many reloading books, but I rely much more on these sites. JFWIW. | |||
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Ken Waters Pet Loads. That is all I use. It never ceases too amaze me when people ask for loads for their rifle. NO one can give you loads for your rifle; they are all different; you have to work them up yourself. | |||
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Ken was one of the most knowledgeable people on reloading. Used to visit him at his house with Steve Vogel of Ruger. No Internet then, so we used to talk on the phone for hours. A wonderful, and very kind man. | |||
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I think "poor answers" are often driven by "poorly worded" or "imprecise questions". Consider, the different answers that are likely to come about by the following two similar questions. A. Hey need a good load for my 308 Win using Nosler 165 partitions? as opposed to B. Does anybody have a load using X powder with Y bullet that they have found to be consistently accurate across three differnt rifles? History would teach us there are such loads given Ken Waters book and the existince of Federal Gold Medal Match ammo which consistently shoots good in many rifles and exists for 223 Rem, 6.5 Creedmoor, 308 Win, & 30-06 Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I agree with all the posts above^^^ Asking for MY LOAD that works great in MY RIFLES is tantamount to asking me for advice on what works on YOUR WIFE! haha They're all so very different. Guns and women, that is. Zeke | |||
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EXACTLY!!!  | |||
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Even in the age of the internet, there are some cartridges for which handloading information is very hard to find. Nothing wrong with doing a little fishing for it. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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The above is correct. Not everyone has decades of experience. I have helped people develop loads for their rifles. I demand that they and their rifle be on hand. So we can go through the process together. If it is a caliber I don't have on hand they buy the die set. They are also made to buy or pay for the other components. Several have then taken up reloading, others were just happy to have a couple of boxes. | |||
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Actually, reloading is pretty easy, if you just think about it. I have a ridiculously high number of wildcats. Most are my own design - don’t ask me why - but at the time I thought it was a good idea!  All one has to do is use any cartridge of roughly the same size, and go from there. Another fact is, one can use any powder, for any cartridge. Getting optimal performance is another matter. | |||
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Never ever had any reloading book. All I learned is almost from here since 1997. The rest are internet sources, online reloading manuals, android apps, QuickLoad, Gordon Reloading Tool or whatever. Also "figured out" some shotgun reloading data. Sent to pressure tests, everything fine (slug loads with 800X powder). tl;dr: No reloading book ever needed. Jiri | |||
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I agree. I do like seeing what other loaders do/are able to accomplish, especially regarding new powders. But I always refer back to manuals or my own data. Speer and Lyman are probably the manuals I use the most. AK-47 The only Communist Idea that Liberals don't like. | |||
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Well I guess it is partly because I am getting a bit long in the tooth and because I like books, but I have about 40 reloading books. I like to check back as years go by and see how the loads being suggested have changed, or compare loads suggested by different bullet manufacturers with the same powder, etc. etc. Old manuals often have load info for older cartridges that have fallen by the way side and are not common these days. There are always new bullets and powders coming along and so the new manuals often reflect that, providing new load info that is not in the previous editions. So I usually buy the manuals from the big component companies when they come out. You can of course, just use your head and figure things out safely by comparing case capacities, etc. as has been mentioned, and I often do that. I rarely however ask for advice on the internet...because I can just search and find out without making someone else do a bunch of typing. When I find some interesting load data I just print it off and put it in a 3 ring binder I have on my loading bench. I don't use apps and other such crap as I am not wired 24/7 and do not want to be. I like it just fine living in a place with no high speed landline internet and no cell service.  ______________________________________________ The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who are bereft of that gift. | |||
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I will try to help any one on load data, but I stipulate guns are an inity unto themselves. The books are handier for me, especially those little pamplet books for a buck or two that combine all suggested loads of a single caliber, but I have the big books also but the books are for my shops thats 25 yards from my internet and handier during a reloading session, at any rate how you do is up to you. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I can teach anyone to reload and have tought maybe 50 or a 100 have no idea, but lots.. What is hard to teach is all about loading beyond book max and wild catting work up, for that you must fly by the seat of your pants and it will test you. As to working up accurate loads you first master reloading then work up loads by shooting the targets, the gun then teaches you what it likes not the inernet or the handloader next door. There are those who go fourth without fear or common since, some survive and some not so much. then you have the perinoid and they live in fear and some survive and some not so much also!  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I think it is important to start with a reputable manual, not only for the loads but for their instruction on processes. I've only had about six 'brands' of manual but four different editions of one. Within these I have found strange variations in the loads, which suggests mistakes can get through. Thus I compare the different manual and powder-maker tables to decide on safe starting loads. I look for loads on the internet, too, but generally from the powder makers whose books I don't have. | |||
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Few years ago, my .585 HE rifle was finished. So we went to gunsmith who made the rifle. Took reloading press, dies, powder, primers, bullets, scales whatever with us. To the bench in gunsmith's shop, we attached reloading press and made some ammo. Ed Hubel told me: "Start with 155 gr of RL-17 under 750gr bullet". Checked in QL, seemed fine. So 155 gr of RL-17 under 750gr Woodleight Weldcore. I asked gunsmith if there is everything fine with the rifle. Replied yes. Then he asked me if ammo is fine. I replied yes. He gave me the rifle into my hands, we went to the porch, I loaded the rifle and fired. Everything fine. Without any reloading book  And here is the really first shot, that one I am writing about: https://youtu.be/W4iYhHg2izg Jiri | |||
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We can't all go to the cartridge originator for reloading advice, Jiri, but I fear some reader may take your casual attitude seriously. Careless reloading really can end in tears. | |||
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I take it seriously. But it is not rocket science. With today software tools and some knowledge, you are fine. Working up carefully, looking for pressure signs. I am talking about reloading for modern rifles or handguns. Examples: I used RL-17 in .375 H&H and 8x57 Mauser when nobody does. Neither published nor recommended for those calibers that time. Just run QL and worked up. .460 Rowland: Powder/bullet combinations never published anywhere. .500 S&W Magnum: the same here. Published data for 400 gr bullet and H110: 40 gr is maximum. I use 44. How it is possible? I use shorter bullet (Woodleigh) instead of longer (Sierra). As I wrote, it is not rocket science. Ask any wildcat creator here. Different story is reloading for shotguns and developing own loads. You are on thin ice here. Based on some sources, I developed slug loads and we sent it for pressure testing. Here are results: https://hel2008.cz/guns/slug_26.png https://hel2008.cz/guns/slug_28.png https://hel2008.cz/guns/slug_30.png As I said, I take it seriously, but I am not going to overthink it. Jiri | |||
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I cannot stand it when a new reloading manual is published and I don't have a copy. I have all the old manuals and reference them often. All the new chamberings and powders now out there will eventually be in a manual sooner or later. Also the powder and bullet companies publish their loads on the internet for reference and can be found easily. Todays information is much better than when I started reloading in the early 70's so take advantage of it when shooting something new for you. Good Shooting. phurley | |||
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I have always considered Ken Waters Pet loads the Holy Grail of handloading. JMO "300 Win mag loaded with a 250 gr Barnes made a good deer load". Elmer Keith | |||
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The internet is a great source of information for finding a load. For example, I recently switched to US powders for my 300 WSM and 270 Win respectively. I followed the following route: 1) Got a general idea of what is needed from a loading manual 2)Scoured the internet for favourite loads of others using my bullet and powder; 3) Came to a forum like this and asked advice, as specific as possible; 4) Worked up a load safely in my respective rifles. Yes, one can try the two dozen loads listed in manuals, but there are definitely "general" loads that work in most rifles with a little tweaking and the above sure saves lots of time and frustration. | |||
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I think if you get loads from the internet, you should only take them from formal tables published by known makers. Mistakes can occur but they are more likely from the tapped-out memories of any forum's members. | |||
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Manuals are very important to proper and safe handloading, I still refer to some of my 10 05 15 manuals..If for no other reason than its a starting place in any load workup. You can get a lot of bad advise on the internet as well as good advise, but can you separate the two? Not if your a newbie or worse yet an "experienced newbie!"  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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There are those calibers that have little or no data available then the internet can save your bacon or blow you to hell.  walk softly in such cases...but it may be your only option.k Examples of some can be the 10,75x68 a grand caliber that at one time was unavailable and I furnised that info to a number of AR compadres and today its fairly common, the 311 Wesley Richards another, and others,My point being that the internet and books are options, no need to not use them both..ridiculas to only use one for petes sake.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I would think that most people asking for a load for a particular calibre would be looking for a starting point, as I do myself, or a confirmation of a load they have details of but haven't tried yet. Roger | |||
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Ken Waters “Pet Loads” has been my source for as long as I can remember. It not only gives loading data, both good and bad, but also goes into the choices of powder, bullet and brass. I find it to be good reading, even on calibers that I don’t reload for. Shoot Safe, Mike NRA Endowment Member | |||
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I enjoy reading 'Pet Loads' for the logic Ken reveals, however, in our time I rarely have the same combinations of bullets and powder he used, so the loads themselves are a bit academic. | |||
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most books give you starting loads and max book loads, Nothing wrong with that! some even give pressure to those loads...Its not rocket science, its common since..same for internet choices..cut two grs. and proceed from max works for most..Ive never known a beginner to blow up a rifle if its a proper factory rifle and not some junker. Only experts have blown up rifles  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Completely agree. I have Pet Loads and all the page supplements that were published as well. He was a fountain of knowledge, but as you said, lots of bullets and powders that didn't exist when Ken was doing his thing. Still a person can use some of his data, just like old manuals, and extrapolate information for powders that are similar burn rates, etc. if you want to.....or just look it up on the net and print it off and add it to your loads binder.  ______________________________________________ The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who are bereft of that gift. | |||
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Ken Waters was way ahead of his time, as was Bob Hagel. I think what Ken was always stressing was that if you changed anything, it changed everything. Dick | |||
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I noticed some time ago that reloads in the first Speer. and others the loads were hotter on the mad in, at least until the Lawyers arrived and screwed up another anvil with a powder puff.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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