I just received my order from Midway USA of 1000 Rem. 165gr PSP Core-Lokt Bullets...
I'm going to use them in several of my rifles for hunting deer-sized game...

My question is, has anyone ordered these bullets and had so much difference in weight variation?

I set my Dillon beam-scale to a 165 grains and I had a major difference in weight variation when measuring at least 10 bullets individually...

I am talking a wide spread...I didn't adjust and weigh each one but just took them on and off the scale while it was set at a 165 grains...

There is no accurate consistency in weight, I mean I'm not looking for BR target type of accuracy out of these bullets but is this type of deviation in weight customary for Core-Lokts in your opinion, that's all I'm questioning?

Or are these "bulk bullets" known to be a bunch of rejects and should I stick to ordering pkgs of a 100 bullets instead?

Thank you for your replies!

I think it is pretty much standard for bulk bullets, you are getting bullets from many different lots, and this doesn't apply just to bulk CL's. I used to buy boxed Remington bullets, but the 30 cal 180 Bronze points, you couldn't find a more accurate bullet 20 years ago.

I've used those bulk 165 gr Core Lokts as practice bullets in my .308 and .30-06 match rifles. They always worked very well in my experience.

Thanks guys...

I just weighed 10 of these 165gr Core-Lokts and before I post the results I would just like to say I weighed my 180gr.Nosler NP "factory seconds" in the original manner as described and they measure really really accurate...Next I did this with my 130gr. Winchester Power-Points and they also measured all within pretty decent accuracy...

However these Core-Lokts are all over the place in terms of weight variation or I guess deviation as one calls it...

1)164.4gr............6)165.4gr
2)165.1gr............7)166.2gr
3)165.0gr............8)166.1gr
4)165.9gr............9)165.7gr
5)164.8gr...........10)165.2gr

Granted some of these readings aren't bad at all but in 1000 bullets can you imagine the deviation....

I'm new to all of this and just needed to know how much of a cause of concern when working up a load and sighting in?

Is this the norm for bullets?

I'm not that "anal" about it yet it was a big surprise when I weighed the Core-Lokts at first to see what bullet I had purchased being that I had several recent orders of different types and weight...This is how it all started...

Thanks again!!!

The weights you've shown us are not exceptionally poor.....I'm guessing you'll have very good success with them as-is!

Hey Vapodog...

As usual thanks for chiming in...That's all I needed to be assured of...

Thanks to all!

One batch of 500ea. ,150 gr.Went from 147gr to 152gr. Repeatability was not good. They were sorted in 1 grain increments and than they performed all right. roger

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
One batch of 500ea. ,150 gr.Went from 147gr to 152gr. Repeatability was not good. They were sorted in 1 grain increments and than they performed all right. roger

I appreciate your comments and will keep that in mind...

You got a 5 grain difference in that batch and I'll weigh a few more at random and see...

If it gets worse I'll send them back to MidwayUSA for sure...

Thanks again!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by daveo:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Late-Bloomer:
Thanks guys...

I just weighed 10 of these 165gr Core-Lokts and before I post the results I would just like to say I weighed my 180gr.Nosler NP "factory seconds" in the original manner as described and they measure really really accurate...NextIdid this with my 130gr. Winchester Power-Points and they also measured all within pretty decent accuracy...

However these Core-Lokts are all over the place in terms of weight variation or I guess deviation as one calls it...

1)164.4gr............6)165.4gr
2)165.1gr............7)166.2gr
3)165.0gr............8)166.1gr
4)165.9gr............9)165.7gr
5)164.8gr...........10)165.2gr

Granted some of these readings aren't bad at all but in 1000 bullets can you imagine the deviation....

I'm new to all of this and just needed to know how much of a cause of concern when working up a load and sighting in?

Is this the norm for bullets?

I'm not that "anal" about it yet it was a big surprise when I weighed the Core-Lokts at first to see what bullet I had purchased being that I had several recent orders of different types and weight...This is how it all started...

Thanks again!

O yes It is true the noslers are on the money.

Late-Bloomer...
For hunting deer-sized game at reasonable ranges I can't imagine you will ever have an issue with those bullets. For reference/comparison, here's a 10 bullet study I did a while back using Sierra 168 gn international match bullets:

1.)168.0 6.)167.9
2.)168.0 7.)167.8
3.)168.0 8.)168.0
4.)168.3 9.)167.6
5.)168.9 10.)168.0

Hope this helps....

You're not talking about a match bullet, you're talking about a deer killin' bullet. Which it will do very well. Don't angst about it. If you look at the deviation compared to the total weight of the bullet, it is small. If it does bother you, do as posted and divide the bullets up into lots. I think, however, you'll find the accuracy more than adequate.
FWIW, No, they don't make special runs of say a 1000 bullets with sloppy specs and then tighten up things to run lots of 100. They just weigh out 100 or 500 or 1000 as they come off the line. Or send a bunch over to the ammo loading department. It's all the same bullets.

You will find them to be honest to goodness straight shooters. I've been feeding this bullet to a dozen -06s, and none have balked yet. Even my M-1 loves 'em! They shoot well in my bud's 308 too...

They may not penetrate as far as the TSX but they will get the job done just as good. roger

Let's say Late-Bloomer already had a Load he Developed using the 165gr Remington SPS Bullet that he knew was accurate. Let's call it the "165gr SPS Load".

Then, if he took 100 of the Bullets from this new Lot and:
1. Weight Sorted them.
2. Segregated out the 8 Lightest.
3. Segregated out the 8 Heaviest.
4. Loaded them with the "165gr SPS Load".
5. Shot the Lights and Heavies into Separate Targets.

What do you all think he would see?

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
What do you all think he would see?

Why holes in the target of course. Was this a test? roger

When I have bought bulk Remington bullets from Midway in the past they have been like that as well. Pretty much seconds in many cases....

And not seconds from Nosler or Sierra either.

If you try to return them to Midway make sure to overcharge them on the shipping.

They will probably shoot just fine in the woods.

Cheers,

Dan

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
What do you all think he would see?

Why holes in the target of course. Was this a test? roger

Your assuming he would "hit" the Target!!! Now, assuming that is a correct assumption(which I would ) what do you think he would see besides the Holes in a comparison of the two Targets?

Let's also assume he is not using a Scout rifle.

Many, many years ago, I had a bunch of milsup match 3-06 brass. I weight sorted it and weight sorted a bunch of bullets and loaded them up to the point of cutting little logs of 4350 in two to get the most precise weights I could.
I put 10 lights in one sack, 10 heavys in another and then 5 and 5 in another. They were shot thru a sporter weight model 700 with a 3x9 scope on it (a hunting rifle) without me knowing which batch I was shooting.
Had I been shooting in competition at a group match, it would have made a difference; had it been a score match, I don't know. Had I been shooting at a deer with any of the bullets, it would have been shame on his ass 'cause he would have been dead, dead, dead.
IMO, weighing cases and bullets and primers, unless you have a lot of free time, is best left to bench rest shooters (who are anal anyway) who deal in minute fractions of inches.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hot Core:
What do you all think he would see?

Now, assuming that is a correct assumption(which I would ) what do you think he would see besides the Holes in a comparison of the two Targets?:

The weight spread on the batch that started this thread was less than the spread that I encountered. Its spread might be similar to the batch that was sorted but to a much smaller degree and in a hunting rifle practically undetectable.

The group sizes with the sorted vs the unsorted in my 30-06 light hunting rifle (non scout) was noticeable but just. 2 1/4" vs 2 3/4" at 100 yds.

In a heavy barreled .308 the differences in group sizes was more obvious; 1" vs. 2". the latter was caused by perhaps 1 out of 6 bullets, 5 shots perhaps about 1 3/8". roger

I would have thought all kinds of responses would have been rolling in.
-----

I used to think I could answer this question, but now I'm at the point that I'm not so sure I can. And I can see where both stillbeeman and bartsche "might be" Correct.

Then I start thinking about what could actually be different with those Bullets? I feel sure that it is either something in the Jacket or the Core. (Hey Bartsche, You can quote me on that!)

And what, or where in the Bullet, could it be? If it is just as simple as the "Lead Tip" being squeezed off with a bit of Weight Variance, it might be very difficult to tell them apart on the Target.

If it is an "ultra tiny" Void or Bubble somewhere in the Lead Core, I'd be guessing that could create some accuracy problems.
-----

The reason I brought this up is because I've shot a whole bunch of the 165gr Rem SPS Bullets from bulk. Occasionally I'd get a Lot that would be extremely accurate, but they still had some weight variance. Then the next Lot would just be "less accurate" with every other Cartridge Component being from their same original Lots.

If Late-Bloomer plans to send them back, there is no guarantee the next Lot will be better, but it might be. Or there may not be an actual accuracy problem with this Lot. Only way to know is to try some, but then he can't send them back.

By the way, I do not see this as unique to Remington Bullets. There is Variance in all of them - but to different degrees.

Thanks Everyone,

I think I'll be fine atfter I've listened to all the responses!

Being new to reloading I didn't know that this is quite normal at least for hunting bullets vs. target-only bullets...

When I work up my loads I'll segregate then into two batches...

One batch will be all close to 165 grains
versus
Other batch will be the way over batch...

This will be more than adequate for me and will give me a good enough idea of what I'm working with in developing my load...

In fact I'll leave my Dillon beam-scale set on 165 grains, toss in a bullet and see where it registers....If arrow is close that'll be in one batch and those others that tip the scales and are way heavier they just go in the way over batch...

I can work with this no problem...

Sure beats weighing each and every one according to exacting measures...That's what I didn't want to do but I think I got it solved using this method...

Main thing is that I develop a reliable and dependable load and get it sighted in and after that put the bullet where it belongs and the Remington CL should do the job!!!

Thanks to all for contributing...
I certainly appreciate all the insight!!!

And most of all Merry X-mas to everyone...

quote:

Originally posted by Late-Bloomer:
Thanks guys...

I just weighed 10 of these 165gr Core-Lokts and before I post the results I would just like to say I weighed my 180gr.Nosler NP "factory seconds" in the original manner as described and they measure really really accurate...Next I did this with my 130gr. Winchester Power-Points and they also measured all within pretty decent accuracy...

However these Core-Lokts are all over the place in terms of weight variation or I guess deviation as one calls it...

1)164.4gr............6)165.4gr
2)165.1gr............7)166.2gr
3)165.0gr............8)166.1gr
4)165.9gr............9)165.7gr
5)164.8gr...........10)165.2gr

Granted some of these readings aren't bad at all but in 1000 bullets can you imagine the deviation....

I'm new to all of this and just needed to know how much of a cause of concern when working up a load and sighting in?

Is this the norm for bullets?

I'm not that "anal" about it yet it was a big surprise when I weighed the Core-Lokts at first to see what bullet I had purchased being that I had several recent orders of different types and weight...This is how it all started...

Thanks again!!!

Im in agreement with vapo, thats not that bad for CL bullets, if it makes you feel any better segregate them into weights that are closer to one another and go shoot, out to 200 yds you wont even notice if they weigh 2 grains apart. Jay

Roland my friend..

I wouldn't let that really bother me, unless you are planning on trying some benchrest shooting.. and I don't think you will find many competitors using corelokts...

but you will find millions of hunters using them..

one deer sized game within 250 to 300 yds, very few people can shoot that well off hand to really worry about the deviation in weight of those bullets....

but they will certainly perform well on their intended task.. game hunting...

I wouldn't send them back....I'd shoot them all...they have always been more than accurate enough in any rifle I have used them in..

cheers
seafire

Hey Seafire2,

Yep, that's what I'll be doing for sure...

I posted this a couple of days ago as the story goes...

Now I know much better, just get out there and shoot'em up!!!

This last post I did was before I spoke with you earlier this evening!!!

So I'll be going with the Remington CL's on the 243Win./100gr, 6.5x55Swede/140gr, 7x57Mauser/140/175gr,7RM/140gr, and 30-06/165gr....

Since I'm shooting only deer-sized game, i.e., GOATS, RAMS, WILD BOARS, and AXIS DEER...

I'll use these REM CL's for practice and hunting these sized game...

However, I will shoot my Nosler "Partitions" when the STAKES are a little higher or warrant them...

Like my trip to Namibia May 2008 for a PG HUNT...My son and I will be using our 30-06 rifles with 180gr NP's...

We'll use these REM CL's 165 grainers for some off-hand shooting practice...

I'm hoping I can develop a load that will have the same POI as the 180 Partitions that we'll be hunting with...

Aloha again my friend!

Mele Kalikimaka & Hauoli Makahiki Hou!

Merry Christmas & Happy New Year!

Ro

quote:

Originally posted by Late-Bloomer:
...Main thing is that I develop a reliable and dependable load and get it sighted in and after that put the bullet where it belongs and the Remington CL should do the job!!!...

OK, I know I am probably stating the obvious, but make sure you sight in for hunting with the bullet you will be using and don't depend on one bullet printing the same place as another, even if it is the same weight. In my 308s, 150 NPTs will print 3-4" higher and way to the left of any other bullet and a foot higher at 200.

Sorry if I was redundant.

I used this 165 grain Remington PSPCL from Midway in a military surplus Swiss K-31 rifle with handloads and WC-852 surplus powder to get several 0.8 inch 3 shot groups at 100 yards. The K-31 had a two power pistol scope mounted forward on the barrel. Small sample size but excellent results.

To "LB"in Hawaii , Ive shot the 150 CL for a few years . Managed to put a few pigs , deer and an Elk in the freezer . The cannalure on mine looks horrible but they shoot great . Best advise , stuff them down on some 4350 powder and see what they will do . Best of luck and Merry Christmas , Clint

quote:

Originally posted by CLL:
To "LB"in Hawaii , Ive shot the 150 CL for a few years . Managed to put a few pigs , deer and an Elk in the freezer . The cannalure on mine looks horrible but they shoot great . Best advise , stuff them down on some 4350 powder and see what they will do . Best of luck and Merry Christmas , Clint

Hey Clint,

That's what I'm planning on doing today!!!

Got me some IMR 4350 and WLR Primers and I'm ready to go.......

Merry Christmas and ALOHA!

Roland

quote:

Originally posted by Late-Bloomer:
I'm not looking for BR target type of accuracy out of these bullets but is this type of deviation in weight customary for Core-Lokts in your opinion, that's all I'm questioning?

Just a couple of points, sorry if repeat, but I did not read the whole thread yet...

1) Remington Corelokt bullets will kill any deer dead dead dead.
2) They are NOT the best bullets for accuracy or consistency, by any means, thus your discovery of weight variation.

However, your corelokt bullets had better weight symmetry than several boxes of some Hornady bullets I've purchased in the past.

The most consistent bullets I've weighed over the years have been (in order):
1) Berger VLDs and Nosler Btips
2) Barnes TSX
3) Swift Scirocco
4) Swift Aframe

The most INconsistent bullets were Hornady 30 cal 165 boat tails, 277 cal 140 BTSPs, then Remmy corelokts.

Really doesn't matter much so long as you do not plan on shooting much beyond 300 yards.

You can take the worst batch of corelokt bullets in any caliber, in a decent rifle, and with a little handloading work, still group satisfactorily to kill a deer inside of 300 yards, easy.

I haven't used any .30-cal. Corelokts, but have used a lot of them in 8mm 185 and 220-grain, and in 150 and 175-grain 7mm. All of these have given excellent accuracy. But I have never used any of them on game, just target shooting.

I am embarrassed to admit that the only bullets I've ever bothered to weigh for uniformity are ones I've cast myself. I won't accept any that fall more than 1.20 grains lighter than the heaviest one in a batch. Trying to eliminate internal voids.

I buy the 165 and 180 in bulk from Midway for my .308 Savage and get 1 to 1.5 inch groups with both...

I bought a 1000 bulk 180 RN CLs and sometimes shoot them in my 30-06 for half inch groups, but that 06 shoots about everthing into 1/2 to 3/4 for 3 or 10 shot groups..It an old factory m-77 Ruger, glass bedded, reshaped factory stock and recheckered pretty fancy, trigger job and M-70 safety. I have had it for 20 years. It looks a little rough now but still shoots up a storm.