Yes I have Lyman reloading book and they show that they reach +2100 fps with Speer 400 grains bullet at 37.000 CUP and OAL 2.640 (57 grains Reloader 7 without compression). I think that I reach my goal in velocity with the 45-70, and it�s make it more easy and cheaper to get brass. I�m serious when I said that Hornady 350 grains RN looks much better in a 45-70 than in a 458 WM or 45-100. I have a freind here in Sweden that use to hunt Moose with his 458 WM loaded with Hornady 350 grains RN to 2100 fps. He has shoot 8 moose with that load at a range of 100 to 160 yards. All of those got down of one bullet. If the bullet hit a bone it didn�t penetrate out, but if not it allways disappear in the forest. The bullet expand to near one inch, but if he let it go faster the bullet don�t holds together.

He don�t like Speer 350 grains becourse of smaller expand. I think that the Hornady 350 grains bullet hit the moose at around 1700 fps. So, if I like to push a 350 grains bullet faster I need to choose another bullet I think. Here in Sweden they did a test about killing power of different calibers on Moose. The winner was 9.3x57 with 285 grains bullet at 2060 fps meassured at the barrel. They had no bigger caliber in that test, but they compared with 9.3x62 with the same bullet at 2362 fps too.

All Moose hit of the 9.3x57 died within 30 meters area, most on the place there they had been shoot. This caliber don�t outpenetrate if it hit a bone, but the bullet is allways inside of the skin on other side.

I also know a friend who have shoot 7 Moose with his 45-70 loaded with a 400 grains flatpoint Woodleigh at 1968 fps meassured at the barrel (62 grains Norma 202) and a Marlin Model 1895. The bullet expand to near one inch and allways outpenetrate if it not hit a bone. All of his Moose died on the place their they had been shoot.

Maybe this is true, that a bullet at at 2000 fps kill better than a bullet at 2400 fps if the bullet are maded to expand at that velocity. But one thing is true anyway, we must allways hit the target on the right place, don�t matter if the caliber is big or small.

I a artikel some years ago I read about a test of 450-400 Martin Henry. They tried to hunt with that caliber in Africa loaded with Blackpowder and cast bullets. 500 grains bullet at 1350 fps from 85 grains of blackpowder. First they shoot a pig, and he died direct. The bullet outpenetrate offcourse. The second animal was a big Cudu (or what they call it, bigger than a milkcow). They hit him in the throat at 80 yards. They found the bullet in his tail one feet in. All the bullets where maded from soft lead. When they hunted buffalo they used hard lead. They where very impressed of that old blackpowder cartridges killingpower. I don�t remember if they killed any elphant, but I remember that they killed buffalo and had outpenetrated bullets on that too.

Now, if I choose to go on a 45-70 I�m sure that I gonna to buy a High Wall rifle from Uberti in caliber 45-90 and sell my brass for 45-100. I have an Pedersoli Sharps in caliber 45-110, but I really like the Highwall rifles. My 45-70 must be in a rifle there the pressure limits is as in the Ruger No 1.

By the way. I like to show some testing of rifles from the factory.
Pedersoli Sharps 45-70: 2000 bar = 29.007 PSI
Pedersoli Rolling Block 45-70: 1241 bar = 18.000 PSI
Armi Sports Sharps 45-70: 2.860 bar = 41.470 PSI
Uberti Highwall 45-70: 3.220 bar = 46.690 PSI

The 45-120, 45-110, 45-100 and 45-90 are tested at lower pressure than 45-70 from all factories.

Best regards
Karl-Erik

Hodgdon #27 or the Hodgdon Annual Manual takes the 45-70 in the Ruger #1 to 50,000 CUP. 2500 fps with a 300 grain bullet, 2300 fps with a 350 grain bullet and 2100 fps with a 400 grain bullet The 45-70 will be cheaper and achieve the level you are seeking. Think about putting a 24" tube on it.

Hi!

I rebarrel my Ruger no 1 from 243 Win to something in caliber 45. But it�s difficult to choose between 45-70 and 45-100 right now. I allready have a 458 WM and 458 Lott in caliber 45 in bolt rifles and also one .500 NE on a Ruger no 1.

I like to reach +2100 fps with 400 grains bullets and 2200 fps with 350 grains bullet in this rifle and I think 45-70 is good for that when I�m looking at load data from Accurate powder for the caliber 450 Marlin and 45-70.

I�m fraid about the case life if I load 45-70 that high, but I don�t know, maybe there is no problem with that at all.

Now, I wonder if anyone here would like to help me to choose on this two calibers, and maybe answer my question about the case life. I would be greatful if anyone had load data for the caliber 45-70 too.

Best regards
Karl-Erik kalle.kes@telia.com

There's a lot of 45-70 loading data available that approaches the performance you describe. Both Hodgdon and Lyman cover it well.

I know the Hodgdon book lists moderate pressure figures for H322 and 300g bullets in loads that approach 2200fps.
I'm not sure what kind of pressures the loads you describe will generate. The limits used for the Ruger #1 in both manuals is 40,000cup which won't typically harm good quality brass. I think the limiting factor for a lot of these loads is case capacity rather than pressure.

There is very little smokeless loading data that has been published for the 45-100, 110 and 120 cartridges. The case volume of these last three is so great that you cannot get good loading density with smokeless so you're stuck with shooting reduced loads of unique or loading black powder.

You will find 45/70 brass very resistant to pressure.



Loose chambers and tight dies may harden the brass and cause it to crack if not anealled, but to get the brass to flow on a rimmed case, it takes allot of pressure.







What do you need another 45caliber for?

It sounds like you have that taken care of.

I got a 45-70 in ruger #1 last year and the same advice was given to me here that they are giving to you. Reloader 7 has been one of the best for getting the velocity up for me. I have obtained loads that are safe in my rifle right around where you are talking. 2000+ with a 400 and 2100+ with a 350. In my experience it can be done. This is the only 45 caliber rifle I own, but it has been a lot of fun. Good luck.