I just read the entire chain on how clean a bore needs to be. Here's something to chew on: Doug Shilen stated that he shoots a benchrest rifle that looks like copper pipping down the bore, with benchrest accuracy.

A Grants Pass, Oregon gunsmith who used to work for Pac-Nor barrels stated that, "I think cleaning is over-rated and overutilized." He shoots Barnes XLC bullets.

A custom gunsmith in Alabama stated that, "You can use 0000 stainless steel on a smaller brush and it will clean everthing out and not harm the bore at all." He uses quite a bit of Douglas barrels.

Yet another gunsmith and a Pac-Nor employee employ the use of very methodical techniques when cleaning, both highly recommend a bronze brush, but only in the direction of bullet travel, very tedious work.

Bore-tech highly recommends nylon brushes.

Krieger barrel makers do not recommend the use of bronze brushes at all.

All depends on who you talk to etc. I tend to clean the bore with a bronze brush when breaking in a new barrel. Then I switch to nylon, but, I have only 5 rifles and all have custom stainless barrels. I broke in the .270 Hart barrel with ballistic tips, sierras, speers, and hornadys. Why? to introduce a variety of copper to the bore. I settled on the Barnes Triple Shock in 130. After this gun was broken in, I found no fouling with the Barnes bullet even after 12 shots. NONE. However, after I had about 27 shots, accuracy began to open up a bit. A bore scope confirmed copper streaking near the throat only. 4 swipes with patch and jag and Butches Bore shine, accuracy went back to 1/2" at 150 yards.

I believe that any time you change bullet brands, you should clean the bore before hand, because the copper make up is different. Just my experience. I also am a firm believer in loading up a variety of bullets for break in because I have found outstanding long term results from doing this. Just a suggestion.

My experience is that it is a bit tougher to clean a factory barrel than a custom barrel. Secondly, it is a bit longer to clean a chrome moly as opposed to stainless.

Doc,

I have a 1965 Rem Model 600 in 6mm Rem that I bought new. It has never had anything stronger than oil and a brass brush in the bore and it still shoots MOA.

When I was in the Army, we never used anything stronger than a varsol type solvent and a brass brush on the M16's bore, but I won't claim MOA for them.

When I was in the Navy, we never used anything stronger than varsol type solvent and a brass brush in the bore of the M1 Garand. They shot pretty good, even when the oil was boiling out of the stock from being so hot.

I have an RA 5-45 03-A3 two groove that shoots close to MOA and I never use harsh cleaners in it.

I had a salesman at Bass Pro tell me the problem with my NEF .223 was the bore was fouled with copper. Sweet's didn't bring out a speck of copper, so that's the last time Sweet's will be used.

Doc, very interesting post. Can't argue with a bit of it. I guess it all boils down to what you are looking for from your rifle. A hunting rifle certainly doesn't need the accuracy of a bench gun. I used to intentionally keep my hunting rifles fouled so the first shot was a true shot.

When competing in benchrest, you have to do something to keep things as consistant as possible. If you were to go until a barrel fouls bad enough to cause it to not group, you just lost the match. So most keep the barrels clean, after each relay, so the condition of the barrel stays the same. Whether the barrel likes to be somewhat fouled or squeeky clean. It has to be consistant.

There is no doubt that over cleaning, or improper cleaning can damage a barrel. I'm amazed at how many still use aluminum, jointed rods. Or, clean from the muzzle end. Or don't use a good bore guide. Also, it must be common practice to not give cleaning the proper attention it deserves. Just walk into any gun show, and see how many tables are set up with quality gun cleaning equipment! All those expensive guns for sale, and hardly nothing to clean them with. Supply and demand, no demand for cleaning stuff, nothing for sale.

There are many ways to clean a bore. One method just fits the individual user better. The end result is what's important.

Paul5388,
If Sweets didn't remove a speck of copper then there was no copper present.

Jim,

I probably wasn't clear enough. The lack of copper, even though I had never used anything other than a bore brush and oil, was the point. I have shot everything from Win, Rem, Nosler, Hornady, Sierra, S&B and IMI to Chinese bullets through that barrel and there wasn't any copper in it. Sweet's isn't going to remove what isn't there, even though most would insist it really is there.

More bores are scrubbed into an early grave than they are shot out.



Premium bores take a lot less to clean than a factory tube. A few patches of Butch�s will quickly clean most any premium bore. I use Montana X-Treme for everything else. The stronger the solvent, the less scrubbing is required...

I tend to agree with most of what was said. The only thing I have issue with is the use of Bronze Brushes. In my experience, they leave about as much copper in the bore as they take out.
Patches and Solvent only!

Doc,

Lot's of Mojo and VooDoo, or VooDooDoo depending...

I have the same observations about barrel break in. The Gurus range in opinion from, "don't" to all sorts of bizzare routines and combos.

All hooey and no scientific method. With the quality of borescopes available today and other testing gear you'd think there'd be better science around these things...

Me, I've gone to WipeOut cuz I'm lazy and it does eliminate concerns like rod peening, rod coatings picking up abrasives (not completely, but you aren't run the rod back and forth a gagillion times..) bronze brush damage, etc....



R