Since I have a wildcat and have to reduce neck size for an ultra mag, plus, I do use 30.06 Lapua brass to neck down to 270,

I was thinking of buying one of these, BC 1000. What do you think?

Here it is in action:

annealing video

It looks like a neat affordable product. I, however, only anneal a couple hundred cases a year. Setting it up for 50 or 100 in my case would take about as long as the way I now do it. In larger quantities it would would be the cats nuts. roger

Yes, I'm taking numbers into consideration. I go in spurts. I'm sure a lot of us load all the time, I have dry spells, then almost daily, I'll spend hours at the bench and that can go on for a month or so.

Inexperience question:

The only annealing I've ever done has been on steel. Need to do it on brass that is being reformed.

I was under the impression that annealing brass involved heating it and then quench cooling ... the same as hardening steel.

Does this set up do an adequate quench?

Mike I don't anneal that many cases either anymore once the necks split 5-6-7 times what ever I toss them, brass is not that much in the over all picture + I have a ton of what I need.

In the video I'm sure there dropping into water you don't want the whole case annealed just the necks.

Like you, I load for wildcats that require a lot of neck work, and have been using the Ken Light unit for over a year now. It works well, but requires additional "wheels" for different size cases.
Annealing is the answer to this kind of case forming. I form a 338 from 416 Rigby cases, and at nearly $2.00 a pop for the brass it gets expensive to have the necks split after about four reloadings. I have not had a split case neck since using the Light machine.
Here's a link to another unit that I wish had been on the market when I bought the Ken Light; I probably would have went with the Brass-O-Matic instead.

http://www.zephyrdynamics.com/page3.html

As I don't own one !. I'll ask a question does the Ken Light machine have the cartridge base set in water under the wheel ?.

I have a machinist friend who made his own , similar to K Light machine except it has a SS tray under it's cartridge wheel . So the bases set in water , only part of the shoulder and all of the neck is exposed .

Now this is where it's trick , the Wheel is two pieces or really one , with an out side stationary ring with a slot cut out in two places . Cartridges in and out which falls into a bucket of water . ( I think it's just to cushion their fall so they don't dent each other ? ).
It also has two opposing torches one of which is adjustable for sliding closer or further away . The motor is 110 AC with DC converter variable speed , came off some CNC Mill or something like that .

It has no drop out hole , rather a small arm which bumps the case after annealing , and it falls through the outer rings slot , into the bucket .

As the inner ring doesn't have true holes like the Ken Light set up . Their only 3/4 holes , which break out of the SS inter ring , to allow the cases to inter or exit in their respective slots .

He won't allow me to photograph it , as It's under Pat. search .

However didn't care whether I explained it or not . Water tray is only .500" deep and it's part of inter spinning wheel .

Two things I really liked about it , ONE IT WORKS , two it handles all rifle cases as the wheel is height adjustable !.

Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

Brass is not like steel. It does not need to be quenched in water for immediate cooling. The video shows the annealed brass dropping into a bin.

This article was informative on annealing:

ANNEALING

I'm glad I started this thread. That brass-o-matic looks even better. One, it is cheaper, as I would have to buy 3 separate wheels from the model I posted. One wheel for 30.06 style cases, one for 7mag, and a third for my RUM cases.

I think I may just go with that brass-o-matic. Thanks for posting that.

Do some of you buy this crap or just want people to think you have more money then brain's
because your doing a good job.

My anneling process consisted of a large baking sheet a propane torch and some water I was into for a total of maybe $20.

Quenching has nothing to do with the annealing process of brass and copper alloys. It's just a convenient way of quickly cooling the cases after they're annealed.

quote:

Originally posted by Hunt-ducks:
Do some of you buy this crap or just want people to think you have more money then brain's
because your doing a good job.

My anneling process consisted of a large baking sheet a propane torch and some water I was into for a total of maybe $20.

Well, Hunt-Ducks, thanks for the input. For what it is worth, I started this thread because I do not know enough about the topic. Plus, when I did read about it, the majority of the available articles agreed that the method you use is the "old" method and the annealing process is uneven, thus, it is a shitty method, which also describes your post.

By the way, it's not

quote:

...or just want people to think you have more money then brain's

It's "than." Thanks for showing us all how much "brains" you have.

As far as money v. brains, why don't you worry about your funds and let me worry about mine, fair enough?

Hunt-Ducks;
Had you taken the time to read the article posted by Doc, you would have found that you're the one whose method should be questioned.
I went to the machines discussed here because annealing is an exact process, not one in which hot fingers or faint glow suffices. I provide you a quote from the referenced article:

"The critical time and temperature at which the grain structure reforms into something suitable for case necks is 662 degrees (F) for some 15 minutes. A higher temperature, say from 750 to 800 degrees, will do the same job in a few seconds. If brass is allowed to reach temperatures higher than this (regardless of the time), it will be made irretrievably and irrevocably too soft."
"Brass will begin to glow a faint orange at about 950 degrees (F). Even if the heating is stopped at a couple of hundred degrees below this temperature, the damage has been done--it will be too soft."

As Doc so aptly put it - spend your money any way you see fit, and butt out of how I spend mine.

Looks like you would be well served by trading a little of your money for some knowledge!

Brassbender

quote:

Originally posted by brassbender:
"The critical time and temperature at which the grain structure reforms into something suitable for case necks is 662 degrees (F) for some 15 minutes. A higher temperature, say from 750 to 800 degrees, will do the same job in a few seconds. If brass is allowed to reach temperatures higher than this (regardless of the time), it will be made irretrievably and irrevocably too soft."
"Brass will begin to glow a faint orange at about 950 degrees (F). Even if the heating is stopped at a couple of hundred degrees below this temperature, the damage has been done--it will be too soft."Brassbender

To say the least I am surprised. You may be right but heating from the neck down I have allowed the top of the necks to glow a faint orange color over the years and so far have run into no soft brass problem I know of. roger

If I click on "Hide Post" on that drivel Ducks spewed out, will it hide ANYTHING that rude bastard posts after that, or just that particular sample of wombat vomit??

Also taken from the article about cases that are too soft:

quote:

By "soft" I do not mean to imply that it is like "dough" or soft like an aluminum beer can. It is "soft" only in comparison to the head of the case. On the other hand, the head of the case is not "hard" like a ball bearing is hard--it is only "hard" enough to do its job and no more. If it is too hard or soft, in the wrong places, the cartridge case will fail, and your first indication of this disaster may be a cloud of gun parts flying in into your face. Such a rapid disassembly of a gun is usually attributed to "an overloaded cartridge," but just as well be from a normally loaded cartridge (developing normal pressures) whose case failed rather catastrophically, and, I might add, rather suddenly, because it had lost its necessary properties.

...and this part, especially:

quote:

Any annealing whatsoever of the cartridge base is over-annealing and is dangerous. This area of the brass must retain the properties it had when it left the factory. If it is made the least bit softer, let alone "dead" soft, the stage is set for another shooter's nightmare. At the very least, you may get a whiff of hot gas directed toward your face. At the worst, you can be seriously injured as your gun behaves more like a hand grenade than a firearm.


I once heard a tale of a gentleman who placed his brass on a cookie tray and placed the whole batch in an oven at 650 degrees for over an hour. He wasn't hurt--at least seriously. His attitude toward annealing is very negative.

quote:

Originally posted by Shibumi:
If I click on "Hide Post" on that drivel Ducks spewed out, will it hide ANYTHING that rude bastard posts after that, or just that particular sample of wombat vomit??

I don't know, but you can put him on "ignore." I think from then on, you will not see his posts.

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:

quote:

Originally posted by Shibumi:
If I click on "Hide Post" on that drivel Ducks spewed out, will it hide ANYTHING that rude bastard posts after that, or just that particular sample of wombat vomit??

I don't know, but you can put him on "ignore." I think from then on, you will not see his posts.

Done. Thanks Doc!

Do the admins around here boot tools like him, or just ignore them until they get bored and go away? I haven't seen a constructive word from him yet...

quote:

Originally posted by Shibumi:
Do the admins around here boot tools like him, or just ignore them until they get bored and go away? I haven't seen a constructive word from him yet...

I'm not sure what it takes to get banned, as I've seen other members get banned for what seemed to be mediocre reasons, while others seem to get away with quite a bit. None of us know who gets warnings, if any. But, just so you know, the contents of his post are not grounds for banning.

I have ordered one of these http://www.battenfeldtechnologies.com/suanma.html from optics planet (more in my price range). I have looked at Ken Light and Brass-o-matic, but more than I want to spend. I currently use a 650 F temp stick available for about $7 from welding supplier to assure proper temp. I use a cookie sheet and knock the cartridge into a pot of water. This is slow if you have very many to do.

Hey Doc, I still use the old-faithful, time-proven methods of either:
1. Stand the case in a pan of water, dim the light in the room, heat the Neck with a Propane Torch and when they glow Red - tip them into the Water.
2. Hold the Casehead in my fingers, dim the light in the room, heat the Neck with a Propane Torch and when they glow Red or my fingers get warm - drop them into a bucket of Water.

I don't use Temp Sticks and have not tried any machines. If what I do now did not work as well as it does, then I would consider the Temp Sticks and machines, but so far I see no need "for me" to have either.

Best of luck to you.

quote:

Originally posted by Hunt-ducks:
Do some of you buy this crap or just want people to think you have more money then brain's
because your doing a good job.

My anneling process consisted of a large baking sheet a propane torch and some water I was into for a total of maybe $20.

The idea of banning someone for a post of this nature is just far too harsh.

Besides he's a nice a boy. Just the other day he delivered 15# of 4831 for $65.00. roger

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:

quote:

Originally posted by Shibumi:
Do the admins around here boot tools like him, or just ignore them until they get bored and go away? I haven't seen a constructive word from him yet...

I'm not sure what it takes to get banned, as I've seen other members get banned for what seemed to be mediocre reasons, while others seem to get away with quite a bit. None of us know who gets warnings, if any. But, just so you know, the contents of his post are not grounds for banning.

Without exception, if someone gets a whack from DRG's ban stick they have had to work really really hard to do it. As the saying goes, a tiger can't change his spots and so whatever behavior the person is doing tends to get exhibited across the entire forum. So someone who only browses a couple forums may not notice it because he isn't getting the PM's from everyone in the other forums complaining about the guy as well! So what happens is someone who witnesses the last straw wonders why, as the bigger picture is not only broader but can also go back a bit in time too.

Since we're hijacking this from annealing I'll do my part too and ask what advantages this mount offers, from the above website?

I saw nothing wrong with ; Hunt-ducks:


Do some of you buy this crap or just want people to think you have more money then brain's
because your doing a good job.

My annealing process consisted of a large baking sheet a propane torch and some water I was into for a total of maybe $20.



Proper Annealing is 650-720 degrees ( No time frame required ) water quenching isn't required either . Water bath method just helps insure the case head and body don't anneal along with the neck and shoulder .

I used that method for years Except I used two torches for more even heating .

Low volume what's not to like it's no big deal and inexpensive .

As one who shoots far to many calibers an has to form a few different cases along with shooting a lot of rounds per year . I now have my buddy anneal mine as he built a trick automated unit .

It's light the torches turn on the motor and load the cases and forget about them . Until the bucket starts overflowing water on the garage floor ( To many cases displaces the water ) .

I like his set up as the drive speed is controllable , this allows for slower on larger cases I E Faster on smaller ones .

We can all agree or disagree argue or side with others on this issue .


One thing I think we all would agree on is , Laupa is King of cartridges .In my book anyway !.

I would love to know the exact temp time method they use on their brass along with their brass formula !.

Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

I forgot to add when setting it up ( I helped ) .

We used HotCore's method and then used temp sticks wrote down times to reach temperatures.
So he could set the motor speed and then we wouldn't have to screw around any more .

We then could impress each other with our Home Brews !. We've been doing that for almost as long as I've been reloading .

I've called the Wife more than twice to Pick Me Up !.

When I was in college , I used to Brew Beer for Bucks !. All that time everyone thought it was part of my Chemistry class experiments !.

Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

quote:

Originally posted by Mark:
...Since we're hijacking this from annealing I'll do my part too and ask what advantages this mount offers, from the above website?

I'd consider that a "Loaner Handgun" to see who buys the BBQ while I shot one of my regular Handguns.

Surely it would be as wiggly and squirmy as a greased pig.

It does look like it is attached so you can still use the Iron Sights, but it would still be tooooo shakey for me.

Oh my some of you are mad.

Spend your money on bullet powder and primers and shoot.

lets ban someone just like a liberal I don't want to hear what someone says that disagrees.

As for annealing, I don't do enough to worry about, so I just spin them as slowly as possible in the drill press and use a little tempelaque (sp) and then let them drop onto a can of water. I never do more than 20-30 at a time, so it gets them even and relatively painlessly.

As to the last post:

quote:

lets ban someone just like a liberal I don't want to hear what someone says that disagrees

Without major punctuation, this makes no sense at all. Why would we ban someone just like a liberal I don't want to hear? Why not someone just like an ass I don't want to hear?

Sorry guys, I couldn't help myself.

The problem I had with Hunt Ducks was that he simply didn't "disagree." If that was the case, I would have been more tame in my response.

All of these seem to work .

My reload , Laupa , Factory Winchester , Winchester re annealed case with 17 firings so far .

You will notice my reload has Bulk Winchester bullets in it , see the canalure 55 grain . Normally I don't use that type bullet but with so many loads to develop one uses what one has inexpensively .





Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

I watched the video on the BRASS-O-MATIC, thats pretty slick.

With the price of the brass in some calibers now hitting $2 and up, extending ones case life can make a noticeable differance in ones reloading costs.
Plus being able to extend case life is nice also because the availability of some cases can be a bit spotty sometimes like the .300 H&H for example.

With it being fairly simple once the initial setup is done I would do it more regularly.

Doc I'm glad you started this post.

Allen

quote:

Originally posted by AllenBosely:
With it being fairly simple once the initial setup is done I would do it more regularly.

Me too. I have not decided what I'm going to do yet, but I am curious now, more than ever, to run a few trials to see if annealing makes a measurable difference in accuracy.

To crashcarruthers-how did you manage to get a unit ordered from Battenfield Technologies?
I called last week inquiring about purchasing one and was told that due to manufacturing difficulties it would be at least one YEAR before they could ship it.
If you heard different, please post here as I am interested and the price sure is nice.

Thanks,

Gary