I am looking to wildcat the 30-06 or 7mmRemMag or 300WinMag to a larger bore. I have a 30Gibbs and have experienced excellent case life. I have been leary of the belted cases since I have read and heard that the case life will suffer, but I don't want to not give belts a fair shake. What have others experienced (# of loads for belted vs non-belted, how hot were the loads, etc.)?

Deke.

If it's a proper designed wildcat the case life from belted or non belted would be the same in terms of thinning of the web.



With rimless cases they usually go at the neck first and that varies with how much they are worked as long as the headspace is correct and the lock up firm.



I designed a wildcat on a belted case and had it headspace on the shoulder. It's easy to do and the webs last forever.

Savage is right. Low case life expectancy in belted cases has a lot to do with how cases are sized. If the FL die is set up to let the belted case headspace on the shoulder, there is little reason to expect inadvertently short case life from a belted case.

The normal problem with belted cases, and why they got a bad rap, has to do with rifle manufacturers liking to cut their magnum chambers on the large side - to ensure all factory ammo will chamber. Likewise, die manufacturers like to cut their dies on the small side, to ensure that all cases sized in their dies will fit into any chamber. If you adjust the FL sizing die according to the standard instruction (touch shell holder), you'll set the shoulder back, and consequently get inordinate case stretch. Remedy: adjust your die to have the case headspace on the shoulder and you should be fine.
- mike

Haven't noticed any difference, really.

ASS_CLOWN

There ain't no difference in case life...if you do your reloading properly.

The webs in factory produced belted magnums thin more that we want do to the poor design of headspacing the cartridge off the belt and not the shoulder. This design must therefore have clearance for the shoulders of the cartridges in the chamber. This results in a weakening of the webs.

Since chambers vary some are very bad and other chambers don't show much thinning. It' also true that some don't know what's going on.

Savage99,

The web, which is the portion of the brass between the internal wall and the external portion of the extractor groove, is not the issue one MAY have with belted cases.

If you repeatedly full length resize, shoot HIGH pressure loads, and have a chamber with maximum or near maximum head space, you will, after repeated firings, thin the brass just forward of the belt and end up with a case head seperation.

Now guess what! If you have a 30-06, which you full length size, shoot HIGH pressure loads, and have a chamber with maximum or near maximum head space, you will, after repeated firings, thin the brass about 0.15" - 0.2" forward of the base of case (arear where the case head blends into the case walls on the inside of the case) and end up with a case head seperation!

I can show you pictures of sectioned cases to PROVE that the web is as thick or thicker in a belted case as in a non-belted case. Just let me know.

Old wives tales and myths DIE hard.

If you are loosing case heads, it is because of excessive head space varation, which may be a sloppy chamber, a small sizing die, or a combination of the two. High pressure loads just aggravate this situation.

ASS_CLOWN

This subject has been discussed and rehashed many times here. Do a "Search".



The biggest problem with belted cases is that there is no SAAMI spec for new brass fo the base-to-shoulder measurement since the case headspaces on the belt. As a result, most all belted brass is anywhere from .014" to .030" inches short of the shoulder in the chamber when it's fired the first time. That initial stretch is what does in the case life, which is the beginning of incipient case separation.



In non-belted cases the 'stretch' is closer to .004" for the first firing. Everything else is much the same. If you initially fire form a belted case and thereafter headspace on the shoulder, case life will be the same as non-belted case, except for that initial stretch, and that's where the difference in case life exists.



If you form the belted brass cases from longer cases so that the initial stretch is minimal, the the case life will be the same and totally dependent on the reloader. I usually lose my cases to loose primer pockets whether they be belted or non-belted cases, but then I form my cases from longer ones in the belted cartridges I shoot.



As for numbers of reloads, using brass formed from 358 Norma for a 338 Win Mag, I have one lot of cases with twenty-some-odd reloads. Some have loose primer pockets. The necks have been annealed every 4 reloads and except for the primer pockets, show no evidence of wear. When using domestic brass with the short shoulders, the best brass life I've ever experienced while headspacing on the shoulder after fireforming, is 15 reloads. At 10 reloads they need to be checked closely and 13 reloads is about average. If you don't headspace on the shoulder, start looking for problems anywhere after 3 reloads.