Hi all! Well i'm new to rifle reloading (but i do shotshell for my 16Ga). I Got my rifle equipment from my father. I tried to reload my 30-06 with H4831 powder. The data i read here and there are from 55 grain to 62 grains for that spedific powder with 165 graind bullets.

Well, i try to put 60 grains of H4831 in the shell ant it fill the case up without place for the bullet! I tried another scale with the same result... So i seat the bullet with the case that full of powder and i can hear the powder being "crunch" in the case to make room for the bullet. Is it normal?

I also tried reloading a 308 shell with the same Hodgdon powder and i got about the shell 1/8 inch to full so the bullet "crunch" the powder too.

Ho can a relaoder put 62 grains in the brass where i can only put 60 grains up to full?

Thanks
Michel

It depends on the brand of case. Winchester seems to have the most room. Remington and federal seem to have less. If you don't have the 4831 with the short cut kernals I believe what you are telling us. You might be better off using a different and fast powder like the 4350's. I am doing a little experimenting with the new 7828ssc. A very slow powder. With once fired neck sized winchester brass I can get about 63.5 grains in and just be at the bottom of the neck. If you have a chronograph you should start with a little lower charge of 4831 and work up but I do believe you are in safe limits where you are.

H4831 is too slow or any bullet in the .308. For the 06, it helps if you use a drop tube. This is just a long piece of brass or alum. tubing, about 8" is enough, flareone end to fit the case & tape or glue a powder funnel on the other end. Slowly pour the powder in & it will "stack" or compact so you can seat a bullet. The use of H4831sc also helps.

STOP immediately and take apart the ones you've loaded! You obviously have way too much powder in the case. You may well injure yourself or bystanders if you touch off one of those shells. First, verify exactly what type of powder you have. Verify exactly what caliber case you are loading-- assume nothing. Read the bottom of the case. It should read something like "30-06 SPRINGFIELD" and have a manufacturer name with it. Once you are certain of your case and powder, consult a reloadiong manual or a good webpage on the 'net for the latest information using your specific powder. I suspect you do not know which powder you have and are loading a "fluffy" powder which fills the case up more than would a denser powder. I'd go to a gun store, pick up a free copy of one of these little reloading booklets put out by the powder manufacturers for their powders and read up on the subject of reloading a bit before you do something wrong and really hurt yourself.

I'm not familar with H4831 but looking at the information in my manuals is shows it to be a compressed load when used in .30-06. I've never attempted a compressed load. All of my reloading is for handgun loads and some powders used there are also compressed but I choose faster burning powders the take up less space in the case. I'm still fairly new at reloading so I feel safer that way. With a compressed load the powder will fill the case and the bullet will compress the powder as it is seated. Judging from the formulas in my information I would say what you are experiencing is normal. But since you are just starting out I would select a different powder that takes up less space in the cartridge and wait to experiment with compressed loads after you gain more experience.

quote:

Ho can a relaoder put 62 grains in the brass where i can only put 60 grains up to full?

Are you using Rem brass? or which brand do you use?A 60 grain load with this powder will be a compressed load..Sometimes tapping the case from the bottom will let the powder settle better. I use Winchester brass which seems to a little thinner and dont usually run into this problem unless I use H-870. You might want to start at a lower charge If you havent already.

Well I am familiar with H 4831.... It will easily hold 62 grains using a drop tube...

The powder coming to the rim, when the bullet is seated it will compress the powder and that is what is called a compressed load.. Look at load data and they will at times indicate when something is a compressed load...

With a 165 grain bullet in a 30/06, you can not put enough powder in the case to cause an over pressurized load with H 4831...

Nothing to panic about...

YOU need to get one of those reloading videos Sierra puts out with David Tubb or get someone who has reloaded for a long time to show you how to do it, and be available for questions when it arises...

Root Beer, I don't know if you were being tongue in cheek there, or serious... but the problem he indicated with that powder is nothing to worry about....

Compressed loads with most slow powders is perfectly SAFE.....But I am glad you at least showed concern RB...

cheers and good shooting guys!
seafire

Michel Jr.

Rather than worry about using H4831, or IMR4831 for that matter, may I please make a suggestion.

Use IMR4350, for full power loads, and IMR4895 for target and midrange loads. Most 30-06 loaders ha

quote:

i can hear the powder being "crunch" in the case to make room for the bullet. Is it normal?

Yup....Happens a lot. I used to use IMR 4831 in my .270 with 130 grain bullets and could never get enough in the case. Finally I just filled the case to the top with powder and crunched in a bullet. It worked fine.

As Root Beer says....recheck it all...but after you have, if all is per the loading manual go ahead and compress the powder.

With some powders one can load half a charge and compress it with a brass rod and then load the second half and compress it again with the bullet. If you was to use an even slower powder than what you're using now this would apply.

For now stay with loads published in the book but remember that it's not at all unusual to compress the powder with the bullet. It's done a lot.

HAVE BEEN USING THOSE 2 POWDERS SINCE THE BEGINNING.

Jerry

A compressed charge is fine... where one gets into trouble is "crushing" in a bullet. Esentially what you are doing is crushing the powder grains on the top portion of the charge only, not a good thing as it can slightly alter burning characteristics. The good news is that H 4831 is a forgiving powder.

With that said, here are a few things you can do. Charge each case in the normal manner, tap the side of the case with a wooden hammer handle (wooden dowel) until the powder settles, then seat the bullet in the usual manner. It will still "crush" down, but will do so in a much more uniform manner.
If you have a vibratory case cleaner, you can use it to vibrate the powder down if your loading block holds cases securely i.e. a good wooden block, not the plastic one size fits all type.
Get a drop tube as suggested above, or start buying the SC 4831s.

I still find IMR 4350 tough to beat in -06, and don't use the 4831s unless loading 180 grain or heavier bullets. I load 58.5 grains of IMR 4350 with 165 grain Nosler ballistic tips without complaint, however that's a stout load and is excessive in some rifles. It shoots fine in my M70 and FN, but gives heavy bolt lift in other rifles, so start about 5 grains lower and work up.

Back away from anything you don't understand and use another powder until you find out more about compressed loads. While they are common if you have a question bugging you about it just switch to some other powder. I don't believe that in most cases you will find cruching the powder is any better than a powder using 45 grains or so, especially in a 30/06. Most 30/06 s love IMR4895 or something simular. Not saying you can't use compressed loads as it is done everyday, but why worry about them especially when you have never done this before. Go with a different powder and get used to reloading the old 30/06 first. I just seen what 60 grains did to a Savage rifle as it busted the bolt face. lucky it didn't blow the side out of the action.

quote:

Originally posted by rootbeer:
STOP immediately and take apart the ones you've loaded! You obviously have way too much powder in the case. You may well injure yourself or bystanders if you touch off one of those shells.

A 60-grain, compressed load of H4831 under a 165-grain bullet in a .30/'06 case is NOT GOING to hurt anyone! As a matter of fact, there is no way you'll ever get enough H4831 into a .30/'06 case under a 165-grain bullet to cause any sort of danger.

Compressed loads are OK - I have been using them for damn near 50 years without any sort of dire results! As a matter of fact, they usually produce more consistent velocities than charges of faster powders that wander around in the case!

As rule I try to find a slower powder that will give the maximum velocity with compressed loads when pressures are well bellow the maximum.

As El Deguello pointed out, compressed loads often give the best consistancy.

Thanks for all these reply. Well i double check everything and my scales are ok and i don't think my brasse ar military one: they are marked IMPERIAL.

I tried one tips: i changed powder for H4350 and with 55 grains, i needs to shake the case in order not to compress the powder with the bullet. the minimum for that podwer is 54 and the max is 57. I don't think i ca put more that 56 nor the funnel will thraught away the excess.

I only have 4 can of powder for relaoding : H4831 and H4350 and they are about 20 years old; they smell and looks nice. s it possible they are chimically altered and the density has lowered?

Thanks again!
Michel

Mike as long as the powders look and smell right they should be fine.

I`ve found with high density loads if one tips the case and funnel allowing the powder to be slowly poured on the funnels side and swirl down into the case it will settle better and more can be put in the case. You won`t see a huge difference but you can add a couple more grains to a load without it spilling out of the mouth. I load 59 gr of IMR4350 with 150 gr Hornadies in my `06(hot load!! I`m not recommending it)and the powder doesn`t overflow useing this method.