Went to the range yesterday to test out some new loads and find the most accurate one. Had the loadings listed below. I got groups ranging from about half an inch, to nearly 5 inches. My rifle seemed to like the medium loads that I had. I noticed that even the lightest loads were pushing the primer back out of the primer pocket. Is this normal? On both of the heavy loads, the primer was flattened and there was a very slight bulge near the case head. Only fired one of each of those. The rest of those will be disassembled.

Rem 700 ADL .270 Win

Case: Rem
Primer: WLR
Powder: H4831SC
Bullet: Combined Technologies Ballistic Silvertip

130 gr bullet
52.5gr, 54.5gr, 56.5gr of powder
150gr bullet
51gr, 53gr, 55gr of powder

The best group I shot was with the 130 and 54.5 gr of powder. It was right at a half inch. The worst group was the 150 with 51gr of powder... nearly 5 inches.

On my 9mm pistol, I had loaded the following.

Case: Rem
Primer: WSP
Powder: Unique 6.1gr
Bullet: 115gr FMJ RN

That is the info I got from my manual. I had massive recoil for just a 115, and it made the extractor bite into the case head. It also scarred up the case body from where it slid out of the chamber. It did not flatten or bulge the primer, or bulge the case though. At 10 yards, I couldn't even put a round on a 2x2 1/2 ft target. What is wrong with this load??

Thanks

On the 270, I'm betting that your pushing the shoulder back to far when sizing (creating a excessive headspace type situation).
When fired the neck grips the chamber and the primer pushs back into the bolt face. Depending on your load the case may or may not reseat the primer, if not you get the protrusion, if it does you get the flattened look.
Also your loads data dosn't look right, extrapalating for the differance in cases capacity and primers I'd guess your 130gr powder range to be 54.0-58.0 and the 150gr to be 47.0-51.0gr (assuming you mean the 270Winchester, not the 270 WSM).

I don't want to call your loading practices in to question. Have you calibrated your scales and are you sure that it was set correctly? just an idea. capt david

Expanding on captdavid's comment...the first thing to look at is reloading practices. Don't get offended, we're not slamming you, but start with the obvious (focusing on the 9mm):

verify: 1) powder, type and charge
2)bullet, weight and diameter
3)seating depth/neck tension
4) firearm condition...weak recoil spring can allow the slide to 'slam' back instead of a 'push', dirty, partially obstructed bore can do any number of things

Questions: was the blast unusual too? Do you have more ammo to disassemble and examine? Are you a progressive press user?

Just wanted to clarify. The primers aren't coming all the way out. They're just slightly backing out of the cases. And yes, I do zero my scale and check it with weights every time I sit down at the bench, and periodically while I'm there.

quote:

130 gr bullet
52.5gr, 54.5gr, 56.5gr of powder
150gr bullet
51gr, 53gr, 55gr of powder

Which powder are you using?

He said H-4831SC.
Re .270
Just looking some loads were a bit light, where the primer might backout due to headspace, and not get pushed back in with case stretch.

Another was listed max in one book and so would flatten the primer, and would normaly bulge the case just above the head.

Don't completely FLS the cases and try again.
JL

I don't blame any of you for questioning how I do things. I am new after all.

So far, it seems to be the consensus that my primers are coming out b/c of a headspace problem. I set my dies (rcbs) according to the instructions that came with them. Do I just raise up my resizing die a little? In the case of the load that flattened the primer, I only fired one of those, and won't shoot any more.

CDH,
On my pistol, I also fired some factory rounds, and they shot just as usual. Same recoil, accuracy, etc that I've always gotten from factory rounds, so I don't think it was my pistol. My loads had a lot more recoil, were quite a bit louder for a 9mm, and I couldn't even hit the paper. I do have 150 more of them that I can look at. One strange thing that I noticed after I made my first few rounds was that the case neck is slightly larger than the case body after the bullet is seated(the bullet stretched the cases) I measured my bullets just to make sure and got a consistent .355. The only other thing that I can think of, other than maybe the loading data I have is bunk, is the neck tension. I do have the seating die set so that it does put a very slight crimp on the round. I don't have a progressive. I use a rock chucker.

I haven't reloaded 9m for donkey's years, but don't they have a TAPER crimp. Sounds like you are doing Too much?

Save you (and me) looking up the many posts on partial FLSizeing, wind the die up a few turns, use your bulged case and start sizeing it and keep trying it in your chamber as you slowly wind the die down. It should get tight maybe not even chamber. Go slow and wind down a fraction at a time until the case just fits in nicely. Try other cases for fit also at that setting, before loading.
That accurate load with the 270 sounds like the one to use. :-)
John L.

quote:

Originally posted by Steel Slinger:
I don't blame any of you for questioning how I do things. I am new after all.

So far, it seems to be the consensus that my primers are coming out b/c of a headspace problem. I set my dies (rcbs) according to the instructions that came with them. Do I just raise up my resizing die a little? In the case of the load that flattened the primer, I only fired one of those, and won't shoot any more.

Just to clarify my "headspace like situation" True excessive headspace is a mechanical measurment, Induced headspace is a reloading problem caused by excessive resizing. The die makers instructions are a simple "one size fits all" adjustment, what we (as reloaders) are after is a "custom built ammo" for one rifle. Yes (as explained above) raise the die up so that when chambering a sized case you feel slightly more resistance to bolt close than a factory round, but not as much as a unsized case (from that rifle) has. Lock your die at this point.
BTW, full power loads will flatten out the primers somewhat, the hard part is learning the differance between "normal" and "excessive" flattening (poor example: radial tires have a slight bulge when properly inflated, you have to judge the inflation pressure (low, normal, excessive) by looking at the amount of bulge).
As you are just starting out, I must complament you on the slow/carefull approach your using

According to the Alliant reloaders guide a max load for the 9mm Luger, 115 FMJ, and Unique is 5.5 grains. Your 6.1 is an overload per the manufacturer. Always verify your data with multiple sources. Which manual gave you 6.1 as a safe load?

As far as the 270 load, the practice you will want to follow is "minimum full length sizing". That is, you want to set the shoulder back no more than necessary to allow easy chambering.

You can use the "bolt close" method mentioned above, or you can blacken the shoulder of a fired case (with a match or candle).

Back out the die, and size the case. Keep turning the die back down, until you see the die hitting the shoulder (the black will show where the die is hitting). Lock it in, and you are good to go. HTH, Dutch.

In addition to the possibilty of "induced excess headspace" due to a FL reloading die, a backed-out primer can also be caused by low-pressure loads. What happens is that the primer is backed out by the force of the primer explosion (believe it or not!!), which forces the case forward, actually shoving the shoulder back somewhat as the primer begins to protrude. Due to the low chamber pressure, the case is not slammed back enough against the bolt face to reseat the primer!

This often happens with reduced cast-bullet loads, and is usually accompanied by a very sooty case neck and shoulder area. In severe cases, the soot can extend back halfway to the head of the case. A smoked up case is a clue that pressures are pretty low. I suspect those 52.5 and 54.5 grain loads of H4831SC with 130-grain bullets are very low!

For this reason, people are advised to use cases in which cast-bullet loads have been fired for reduced cast bullet loads only, from that point on.

Man, wish I had known that my resizing die was probably the problem a week ago. I just resized 100 brass last week. All that work... lol. Thanks for the detailed advice on the resizing though. I was wondering how to go about finding that right die setting. Now I know.

That sure would explain my excessive pressure/recoil in my pistol. I got my info from one of those "One Book/One Caliber" manuals. Supposedly, the info that I got was straight out of the Alliant Powders handbook. Glad I didn't use Power Pistol... it calls for a loading of 6.7 for that one!! I think I'll just throw this crap book away and go buy the real thing from now on. Thanks.

quote:

go buy the real thing from now on

SAve your money!

alliant powder
hodgdon powder

From the top of my head. All the data you will ever need for common powders and common calibers is available from the manufacturers online.

quote:

Originally posted by Steel Slinger:
... I got my info from one of those "One Book/One Caliber" manuals. Supposedly, the info that I got was straight out of the Alliant Powders handbook. Glad I didn't use Power Pistol... it calls for a loading of 6.7 for that one!! I think I'll just throw this crap book away and go buy the real thing from now on. Thanks.

Hey SS, I know this can be a bit confusing when you first start. Just go slow and ask a lot of questions to verify what you are doing.

I've not used Power Pistol in a 9mm, but that specific Load "might" produce less Pressure in your Pistol. It depends on the Burning Rate of the Powder.
---

As a recommendation from a guy who has been at this for a long time, I'd encourage you to keep your "One Book/One Caliber Manual". Always verify Loads in more than one Manual if at all possible(and the sites CDH mentioned).

But the BIG mistake appears you did not develop the Load from below. Had you started Low and worked your way s-l-o-w-l-y up, you would have (or should have) noticed Pressure Indicators sooner. It is simply a BAD idea to randomly pick a Load from any Manual(or site) and just take off Loading it.

If you have a Hornady or Speer Manual, go back and "read" the Sections which are concerned with Developing Loads. It will probably create a lot of new questions for you and the folks above can help you get it all sorted out.

Best of luck to you.

Took a glance back through that manual, and found that most other data for the 115 FMJ started out with around 5.1 or 5.3gr of Unique. The "Alliant" secion only had one loading for the 115 with Unique and it called for 6.1 gr.

Lessons learned on both my rifle and pistol.
Thanks for all the help everybody. Really... Can't than you guys enough.

Ok SS, thumb rule time.
If only 1 load is shown, assume that it is a MAX load and back off 10% and work up. In the case of your example 6.1gr load, start at 5.5gr.
There has been a lot of data printed/posted over the years that only shows one charge weight, so it's just another thing to be aware of.

A couple other things to concider with the 9mm. I don`t load for it but, from what I`ve heard and read, the OAL is very critical in this cartridge. Be sure to set it at the lenght listed in your manual for that paticular load, no deeper. The pressures can rise dramaticly with very little change in seating depth.

Don`t over crimp. The same as for the 45acp, the crimp should be a taper crimp and be just enough to close the mouth of the case, removing the bell. The crimp its self has almost no bearing on the bullet tension and over crimping will cause the case to bulge behind it, acually loosening the cases grip on the bullet. The bullet is properly held by the case walls tension. Too much crimp will defeat this and can cause the bullet to move during feeding and recoil.