The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Reloading Maximum load for 7mm Rem Mag 160 gr Nosler AccubondGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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| One of Us |
Hi, I am looking for some advice. I have just got my 7mm Rem Mag and working up a load for it. I am using 160 gr Nosler Accubond and Viht N-165 which is easy to get hold of in the UK, so that is my definite powder of choice, although I do have plenty of N-160 but it’s a bit fast for a 7mm RM. I have the 7td edition Nosler reloading manual. It states the starting load should be 57.0 gr and the maximum load should be 61 gr. The 61 gr load was the most accurate being sub 0.5 MOA. I have seated the bullet 20 thou off the lands. When I chronoed the load the average was a mere but very consistent 2633 fps. The manual says it should be more like 2900+ fps. Their test barrel was 24" whereas mine is 25.5", so in theory should have a higher velocity than the Nosler test. I realise all the manuals seem to over state the velocity but surely not by 300+fps!! Looking at other reloading info, the Vihtavouri manual says for a Speer Grand Slam 160gr bullet the start load for N-165 should be 59.1gr and the maximum is 68.1gr this should produce 2982fps. The maximum load is 7.1 gr higher than Nosler state for their similar bullet. The Hornady manual states for N-165 starting load of 52.7gr and maximum of 62.3gr for a similar bullet offered by Hornady. My question is, how safe would it be to ignore the Nosler manual and try the Viht suggestion? I am wanting to get as close to 3000fps as possible. I know I can make some rounds at say 1 grain increments and watch for pressure signs as I go, but I wonder if anyone else may have also done the same. I know all rifles are different so what is safe in someone else’s 7mm Rem Mag may not be safe for mine. I am using brand new unfired Norma brass and Federal Gold Medal Large Magnum primers. When I have shot 90 rounds I will neck size some brass and compare the same load vs unfired brass. Any other suggestions would be appreciated. Cheers | ||
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| One of Us |
You will have to develop your maximum load yourself, NO ONE ELSE can do it for you. Too much depends on individual powder lots, barrel dimensions, brass, dies, etc. to just use someone else's data. The 7mm Magnum in particular has a wide range of differing leade dimensions, and this has a dramatic effect on velocity. Work up your load a grain at a time. IME most manual data does not "seem to over state the velocity" at all, using my data in a couple dozen chamberings and comparing it to most manuals, mine is either a bit higher or lower than the manuals. This is of course the way it has to be given all the variables. Manual makers do not make up their data (well, maybe Herter's did!). . | |||
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one of us |
Or go by the manual. What concerns me is the Viht data shows max for a 160 in the 60.8gr range. Running 61 grs through QL I get close to what your actual data was. But pressure is LOW. Cartridge : 7 mm Rem. Mag.(SAAMI) Bullet : .284, 160, Nosler AccuBond 54932 Useable Case Capaci: 73.087 grain H2O = 4.745 cm³ Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm Barrel Length : 25.5 inch = 647.7 mm Powder : Vihtavuori N165 Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge, incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge. CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads ! Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time % % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms -20.0 73 48.80 2190 1704 24779 8124 89.2 1.842 -18.0 75 50.02 2243 1787 26328 8392 90.5 1.798 -16.0 77 51.24 2296 1873 27974 8654 91.6 1.755 -14.0 79 52.46 2349 1960 29721 8909 92.8 1.713 -12.0 81 53.68 2402 2050 31582 9155 93.8 1.672 -10.0 82 54.90 2455 2142 33542 9393 94.8 1.632 -08.0 84 56.12 2508 2235 35601 9620 95.7 1.592 -06.0 86 57.34 2561 2331 37770 9837 96.5 1.552 -04.0 88 58.56 2614 2428 40069 10043 97.2 1.508 -02.0 90 59.78 2667 2527 42506 10236 97.8 1.467 +00.0 92 61.00 2719 2627 45088 10415 98.4 1.427 +02.0 93 62.22 2772 2729 47826 10581 98.9 1.388 +04.0 95 63.44 2824 2833 50730 10732 99.3 1.350 +06.0 97 64.66 2876 2938 53811 10867 99.6 1.314 ! Near Maximum ! +08.0 99 65.88 2927 3044 57083 10986 99.8 1.279 ! Near Maximum ! +10.0 101 67.10 2978 3151 60557 11088 100.0 1.246 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE! Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value: +Ba 92 61.00 2848 2882 53783 10203 100.0 1.320 ! Near Maximum ! Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value: -Ba 92 61.00 2546 2303 36577 10071 92.4 1.564 165 nor 160 would be my powder of choice. Cartridge : 7 mm Rem. Mag.(SAAMI)
Bullet : .284, 160, Nosler AccuBond 54932
Useable Case Capaci: 73.087 grain H2O = 4.745 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 25.5 inch = 647.7 mm
Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 61000 psi, or 420 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
140 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 80%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Vihtavuori N570 107.5 76.4 4.95 3178 97.1 61000 14484 1.222 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-33 107.8 79.8 5.17 3164 97.5 61000 14309 1.223 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ReloadSwiss RS 80 110.0 80.4 5.21 3149 97.8 59760 14221 1.230 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2218 110.0 78.9 5.12 3140 96.7 58787 14629 1.224 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-26 95.4 69.1 4.48 3117 100.0 61000 12402 1.242 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma MRP 2 106.4 71.7 4.65 3113 99.7 61000 13041 1.238 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP30 106.4 71.7 4.65 3113 99.7 61000 13041 1.238 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon Retumbo 110.0 74.5 4.83 3112 100.0 58609 12741 1.238 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2225 110.0 74.5 4.83 3112 100.0 58609 12741 1.238 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 517 101.3 72.8 4.72 3112 99.8 61000 12817 1.221 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
SNPE Vectan SP 12 101.1 72.7 4.71 3111 99.8 61000 12790 1.222 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N560 98.3 67.6 4.38 3107 99.3 61000 13047 1.228 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-25 104.2 69.9 4.53 3104 100.0 61000 12093 1.225 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma MRP 96.5 67.8 4.39 3104 100.0 61000 12571 1.235 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate MAGPRO 98.6 70.6 4.58 3100 98.4 61000 13182 1.235 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ReloadSwiss RS 70 93.7 67.3 4.36 3099 100.0 61000 12191 1.219 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 7828 SSC 97.2 67.3 4.36 3098 99.5 61000 12632 1.217 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 7828 102.7 67.3 4.36 3098 99.5 61000 12632 1.217 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ADI AR 2213 98.2 66.9 4.34 3085 99.5 61000 12537 1.215 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ADI AP 2214 102.2 71.5 4.63 3085 99.7 61000 12379 1.212 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon H1000 107.5 71.6 4.64 3082 99.7 61000 12344 1.212 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ADI AR 2217 107.5 71.6 4.64 3082 99.7 61000 12344 1.212 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Raufoss RA15 98.5 67.1 4.35 3079 99.9 61000 12471 1.234 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-22 98.5 67.1 4.35 3079 99.9 61000 12471 1.234 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP5/NP ~approximation 98.5 67.1 4.35 3079 99.9 61000 12471 1.234 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP15 101.2 67.4 4.37 3079 99.9 61000 12493 1.235 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Winchester WXR 101.2 67.4 4.37 3079 99.9 61000 12493 1.235 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Ramshot Magnum 98.5 72.3 4.69 3061 100.0 61000 11905 1.230 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP5 NT ~approximation 101.9 70.0 4.53 3055 98.2 61000 12456 1.217 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori 24N41 109.6 78.7 5.10 3053 91.4 61000 13037 1.219 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ReloadSwiss RS 60 87.3 61.7 4.00 3053 100.0 61000 11162 1.229 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Rottweil R905 99.8 66.8 4.33 3051 99.2 61000 12261 1.233 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ADI AR 2209 95.1 63.7 4.13 3041 99.8 61000 11851 1.222 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-19 95.6 64.4 4.17 3038 99.9 61000 11905 1.230 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Elcho 17 86.4 61.1 3.96 3032 100.0 61000 11085 1.236 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-17 86.4 61.1 3.96 3032 100.0 61000 11085 1.236 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-23 100.7 66.4 4.30 3031 100.0 61000 11183 1.245 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP14 ~approximation 96.3 64.9 4.20 3031 99.9 61000 11825 1.230 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma 217 110.0 73.0 4.73 3030 99.9 52781 13049 1.317 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760 86.2 61.4 3.98 3025 100.0 61000 11469 1.237 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon H414 86.2 61.4 3.98 3025 100.0 61000 11469 1.237 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
PB Clermont PCL 511 88.3 63.4 4.11 3025 100.0 61000 11423 1.237 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Ramshot Hunter 91.2 63.5 4.11 3024 100.0 61000 11408 1.238 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon H870 110.0 76.5 4.96 3021 97.1 52856 13615 1.308 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 SC 97.0 66.0 4.28 3019 99.0 61000 11853 1.227 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon H4831 100.9 66.0 4.28 3019 99.0 61000 11853 1.227 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ReloadSwiss RS 62 89.7 63.3 4.10 3018 100.0 61000 11180 1.252 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma 204 90.8 63.2 4.09 3016 99.8 61000 11626 1.230 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Raufoss RA4 93.8 63.2 4.09 3016 99.8 61000 11626 1.230 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP4 ~approximation 93.8 63.2 4.09 3016 99.8 61000 11626 1.230 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-50 110.0 80.2 5.19 3002 94.7 51502 14080 1.345
Vihtavuori N170 110.0 73.3 4.75 3000 95.4 60468 12290 1.253 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N550 88.2 60.7 3.93 2999 100.0 61000 11055 1.248 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Somchem S385 95.8 65.2 4.23 2998 100.0 61000 11328 1.251 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma URP 90.8 60.5 3.92 2998 100.0 61000 10921 1.244 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP19 ~approximation 90.8 60.5 3.92 2997 100.0 61000 10918 1.244 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Somchem S365 92.4 61.9 4.01 2994 100.0 61000 10589 1.253 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Winchester Supreme 780 94.5 67.1 4.35 2992 99.8 61000 11346 1.237 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate 4350 89.9 60.6 3.92 2991 100.0 61000 10877 1.263 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Rottweil R904 94.7 62.9 4.08 2991 99.4 61000 11399 1.230 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP4 NT ~approximation 91.5 62.6 4.05 2988 100.0 61000 11120 1.243 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N165 100.9 67.3 4.36 2984 100.0 61000 11099 1.241 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Lovex D100 107.1 77.6 5.03 2980 92.1 61000 12053 1.237 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate 3100 98.7 66.5 4.31 2979 100.0 61000 10951 1.268 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Lovex S071 104.4 66.5 4.31 2979 100.0 61000 10951 1.268 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 4831 95.2 61.4 3.98 2979 100.0 61000 10685 1.254 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon H4350 93.4 61.5 3.99 2975 100.0 61000 10944 1.233 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 4350 91.6 61.4 3.98 2974 100.0 61000 10915 1.233 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N160 101.1 65.3 4.23 2974 99.4 61000 11198 1.234 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
SNPE Vectan SP 11 84.9 59.0 3.83 2972 100.0 61000 10525 1.242 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Lovex S070 90.8 60.5 3.92 2972 100.0 61000 10911 1.249 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Ramshot Big Game 82.1 58.9 3.82 2967 100.0 61000 10419 1.242 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP7 NT ~approximation 86.2 58.6 3.80 2966 100.0 61000 10600 1.221 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 4895 81.9 55.2 3.57 2963 100.0 61000 10438 1.246 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Somchem S361 93.8 67.3 4.36 2961 99.0 61000 11215 1.242 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon H380 84.1 57.9 3.75 2960 100.0 61000 10567 1.249 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Raufoss RA11 82.7 55.7 3.61 2959 100.0 61000 10411 1.245 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP11 ~approximation 82.7 55.7 3.61 2959 100.0 61000 10411 1.245 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-15 82.7 55.7 3.61 2959 100.0 61000 10411 1.245 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Rottweil R907 88.9 58.8 3.81 2958 100.0 61000 10805 1.241 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP7 88.9 58.8 3.81 2958 100.0 61000 10805 1.241 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 4007 SSC 86.1 58.8 3.81 2957 100.0 61000 10798 1.241 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
PB Clermont PCL 516 81.2 58.3 3.78 2955 100.0 61000 10460 1.239 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma 203B 83.1 56.0 3.63 2954 100.0 61000 10329 1.247 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ReloadSwiss RS 52 83.3 58.0 3.76 2952 100.0 61000 10419 1.243 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 93.1 60.7 3.93 2950 100.0 61000 10088 1.247 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ReloadSwiss RS 50 82.7 57.9 3.75 2949 100.0 61000 10349 1.244 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Lovex S065 89.8 59.2 3.84 2947 100.0 61000 10488 1.248 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Elcho TR140 - preliminary data 83.8 58.3 3.78 2945 100.0 61000 10302 1.245 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 4320 84.7 56.1 3.64 2943 100.0 61000 10070 1.232 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP3 NT ~approximation 87.8 58.7 3.81 2941 100.0 61000 10304 1.233 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ADI AR 2206H 80.3 54.1 3.51 2941 100.0 61000 10172 1.243 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma 203 old 84.1 57.3 3.71 2937 100.0 61000 10164 1.264 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP3 84.1 57.3 3.71 2937 100.0 61000 10164 1.264 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
SNPE Vectan SP 9 81.0 56.3 3.65 2934 100.0 61000 10102 1.241 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Rottweil R903 86.0 57.3 3.71 2933 100.0 61000 10083 1.263 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Somchem S355 86.3 56.9 3.69 2932 100.0 61000 10107 1.255 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ADI AR 2208 85.4 55.9 3.62 2932 100.0 61000 10101 1.233 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon VARGET 85.7 55.9 3.62 2932 100.0 61000 10101 1.233 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors 12,7mmRA NC1214 Lot20115087 110.0 78.4 5.08 2927 86.8 52956 13193 1.353 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4064 86.1 54.8 3.55 2921 100.0 61000 9901 1.238 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate 2700 86.4 60.7 3.94 2912 100.0 61000 10233 1.244 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Lovex S062 83.7 54.9 3.56 2905 100.0 61000 9735 1.255 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma 201 81.4 53.6 3.48 2898 100.0 61000 9702 1.256 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Rottweil R902 83.0 53.9 3.49 2890 100.0 61000 9588 1.257 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP2 NT ~approximation 80.7 54.0 3.50 2888 100.0 61000 9523 1.237 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 3031 81.7 51.4 3.33 2888 100.0 61000 9365 1.257 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N150 91.2 58.0 3.76 2887 100.0 61000 9548 1.256 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Lovex S060 81.5 53.4 3.46 2886 100.0 61000 9515 1.235 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate 4064 83.4 55.0 3.56 2884 100.0 61000 9527 1.285 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N540 82.8 56.4 3.65 2880 100.0 61000 9556 1.255 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma 202 80.6 53.4 3.46 2877 100.0 61000 9391 1.255 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ADI AR 2206 81.0 54.0 3.50 2872 100.0 61000 9373 1.235 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon US 869 110.0 78.9 5.12 2867 88.1 50340 12351 1.342
Hodgdon 50BMG 110.0 75.2 4.88 2863 83.8 50291 12387 1.340
Vihtavuori N140 82.6 54.5 3.53 2850 100.0 61000 9062 1.255 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N135 87.4 53.4 3.46 2832 100.0 61000 8828 1.268 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
As was stated you really have to work up max for your rifle. AND/OR simply use the book max whichever comes first. A 1 gr jump towards max is too big a jump for me. Looking at the QL data 1 gr gains gives you around 4000psi jumps. I simply don't think you will get the velocity you are hoeing for with 165. I don't have their manual but this is from a pdf copy. (sorry it didn't format well) 7mm Remington Magnum Test barrel: 24", 1 in 9" twist Primers: Large Rifle Magnum Cases: LAPUA, trim-to length 2.492" Bullet Powder Starting Load Maximum Load Weight Type Mfg. C.O.L. Type Weight Velocity Weight Velocity [grs] [in.] [grs] [fps] [grs] [fps] 100 HP Hornady 3.189 N160 68.5 3263 75.0 3570 N560 66.0 3121 77.1 3536 120 Spitzer Sierra 3.268 N160 65.1 3006 71.5 3295 N165 69.2 2984 76.3 3298 N560 62.9 2944 73.4 3312 145 SPBT Speer 3.268 N160 56.2 2655 62.6 2901 N560 58.6 2788 65.2 3054 N165 61.4 2712 67.7 2960 160 Grand Slam Speer 3.228 N160 51.3 2465 56.3 2645 N560 53.0 2605 58.8 2821 N165 55.1 2517 60.7 2707 160 Spizer Sierra 3.228 N160 52.6 2433 60.1 2710 N165 41.5 2139 60.8 2693 N560 49.3 2411 64.1 2843 168 HPBT Sierra 3.287 N560 54.9 2468 63.7 2788 N165 55.0 2423 64.8 2691 N170 61.8 2434 69.9 2709 175 SBT Sierra 3.287 N165 46.5 2239 58.5 2575 N560 48.7 2299 58.7 2666 N170 55.1 2346 66.2 2619 http://pdf.textfiles.com/manua...EARMS/vihtavouri.pdf As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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| One of Us |
 This is taken from the Vhit manual. I will work up my load very very carefully!! Sounds like I should not go up to absolute maximum and stay somewhere around 65 grains. | |||
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| Administrator |
Exactly! Each rifle is an individual for its choice of what it will accept as maximum. | |||
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| one of us |
Interesting how much lower the copy I found online is compared to yours. Those max differences are higher than I normally (remember) seeing . Anyway your data matches close to QL for the Grand Slam. Cartridge : 7 mm Rem. Mag.(SAAMI) Bullet : .284, 160, Speer GRSLAM 1638 Useable Case Capaci: 76.712 grain H2O = 4.981 cm³ Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm Barrel Length : 25.5 inch = 647.7 mm Powder : Vihtavuori N165 Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge, incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge. CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads ! Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time % % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms -20.0 78 54.48 2379 2010 30526 9368 93.5 1.696 -18.0 80 55.84 2436 2108 32548 9640 94.6 1.653 -16.0 82 57.20 2493 2209 34680 9901 95.6 1.611 -14.0 84 58.57 2551 2311 36946 10149 96.5 1.569 -12.0 86 59.93 2608 2416 39355 10383 97.3 1.522 -10.0 88 61.29 2664 2522 41915 10602 98.0 1.477 -08.0 90 62.65 2721 2631 44636 10805 98.5 1.433 -06.0 92 64.01 2777 2741 47530 10991 99.0 1.391 -04.0 93 65.38 2833 2852 50609 11159 99.4 1.351 -02.0 95 66.74 2889 2965 53884 11309 99.7 1.313 ! Near Maximum ! +00.0 97 68.10 2944 3080 57372 11438 99.9 1.275 ! Near Maximum ! +02.0 99 69.46 2999 3196 61088 11547 100.0 1.239 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE! +04.0 101 70.82 3053 3312 65049 11640 100.0 1.205 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE! +06.0 103 72.19 3107 3430 69276 11728 100.0 1.171 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE! +08.0 105 73.55 3161 3549 73791 11812 100.0 1.139 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE! +10.0 107 74.91 3214 3669 78618 11893 100.0 1.107 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE! Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value: +Ba 97 68.10 3057 3319 68070 11019 100.0 1.185 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE! Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value: -Ba 97 68.10 2780 2746 46817 11459 96.5 1.395 If it were mine and I was tied to n165 I would simply continue from the Nosler max is .3-.5 steps using signs or something like 68-69 as max. I've found the Nosler manual to be on the conservative side for max and the generous side for velocity. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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| One of Us |
Cheers Paul. This is the latest published data from Viht. http://www.vihtavuori.com/en/r...emington-magnum.html | |||
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| one of us |
Have a good one.  Almost looks like there has been a good variance in burn rate between batches of N165. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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| One of Us |
Right, well I ended up going with the viht data and went over the Nosler maximum load. I got an average of 2850fps when I went up to 66.3 grains. Interestingly enough 66.6 grains had pretty much the same average fps as 66.3 grains did. I am now in a position where I have used 80 of the 100 pieces of brand new Norma brass. I have neck sized and cut to my desired length. I have measured my case expansion, new VS once fired brass. On average the cases have expanded by 3.5%. I know that every rifle is different, but any idea what the likelihood is that my load will not lose, first and foremost accuracy and secondly velocity. I will more than likely make 3 rounds using 66.3gr with new brass and the same charge with once fired and see what difference it makes on accuracy and velocity. I will also try a load working up to a 3.5% increase as I now have 3.5% more case capacity. This will mean my load could be 68.6 grains. Although the viht data says the maximum is 68.1 grains. The new brass case capacity is 5.456 ml. The once fired case capacity 5.647 ml. Barrel length is 25.5" I am leaving for South Africa for a PG hunt on Tuesday so I have limited time available for another serious batch of load testing!! Any help/advice would be appreciated. Cheers | |||
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Finally I have a load that meets all my requirements. 66.3gr - 2863fps 66.6gr - 2923fps 66.9gr - 2940fps 67.2gr - 2951fps The 67.2gr load started showing pressure signs. There was a circular mark from the extractor plunger. Plus there was only 11fps increase from the 66.9gr load. Given there is negligible difference between velocity of the 66.9gr and 66.6gr, I made my decision based on accuracy. The 66.6gr load was just over a 1/2" group. More than accurate enough for my PG hunt next week. I went home and promptly pulled the 9 remaining rounds. I dare say if I had more time before I went to SA and played with the seating depth, I could tighten the group a bit more. The bullets are seated 20 thou off the lands, when I get home I will try 10 and 15 thou off the lands to see if that reduces my group size, although a 1/2" group is plenty good enough for hunting. | |||
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I have 2 suggestions. You might be surprised with the results from VV N560. Secondly - try measuring the fired primers with a micrometer. These will show you a clear indication if a tiny hat brim is forming on the primer - a POSSIBLE indication of high pressure. In the past when I used to develop loads for cartridges which had low SAAMI specs for old actions, I used this method & was able to get maximum safe loads with 10 + reloads for the cases and tight fitting primers. The background of course is that I was going over the limit & not realising it - resulting in loose primer pockets! "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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A reloading manual is just a reference and in many cases a poor one at that..In fact some are outright ridiculas and other down right dangerous. That big nice reloading manual out of Australia is absolutely running over with mistakes and is totally dangerous and contradictory within itself from page to page. Start with a minimum load, using at least 3 reloading references, then work up a grain at a time and some go to a 1/2 gr. at a time as they near max for their particular rifle..Handloaders are somewhat at the mercy of themselves as we have no way of measuring our ballistics other than age old guess and by gosh references and they have worked for some of us for ions. I observe case heads for gas rings around the primer, extractor marks, stiff bolt lift, expanded case heads, loose primers when a fired case is reloaded, spilt necks, a crack as opposed to a boom, and the almighty chronograph, the holy grail of safe loads. You can take each of the simptons I have named and write a book on why its not a clue to overloading and you may make a good case BUT, observe it, record it, and know that your in a grey zone, and certainly some of the other indications will follow, failure to heed these signs of pressure blows guns up.. The above system has been working for decades for intelligent reloaders, its the best we have. Some manufactures have very sufisticated machinery, and in truth it doesn't seem to work a whole lot better than the old method or so I'm told by the big boys. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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And computer programs that give you all the data needed to perform a space shot to Mars are just that; data which may or may not bear any correlation to your particular rifle and components. Which is why, do not trust any of the fancy computer generated sets of data, nor any manual, nor any load you get from the internet, to give you a reliable max load for your rifle.. There is still only one way to develop a maximum load for YOUR rifle; and that is to work it up yourself using the technique outlined above. I know many people, especially young ones, and a few old ones, are enamored with electronic media, but in the real world, it don't work that way. | |||
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I too have had to fight a couple of 7mm Rem Mags. It took me some trying other guns along the way, but one I really like is my Laredo Model 70 in 7mmRM. It also has a 26 inch barrel. I too use the Nosler book most of the time as I shoot the 160 ABs in it too. A powder that I really like, and is listed above, is the no longer available Winchester 780 Supreme. But I had bought up some of it. I also got the load data from Winchester (Hodgdon) for the 780. At 0.5 grain less than the published Max loading my rifle was very accurate. It also was only pushing the 160 AB at about 2800 from the 26 inch barrel. I went to max loading with no real effect. I agonized some over whether to go over and even thought about buying QL to see what it might offer. Thank you Paul K (Ramrod340) for putting up those QL results too . I carefully inspected the primers and the cases and even cut some to see what might be going on. I also measured them very carefully before deciding to carefully tiptoe up some. Along the way I tried some RL 25 and found a sticky case extraction up at the max of RL 25 and a velocity of about 2975 fps. In some ways it is a little artificial though as for some strange reason my Laredo likes FL sized cases. I worked on just bumping the shoulders back with an S bushing die, but the truth is it shoots its best with new and FL sized cases. It is sometimes just a little hard on closing on cases - so it had me worried. One thing I did was to water weigh some cases for case volume with the idea that the pressure would be less in the cases with more volume, and the same in the once fired cases. I went up just a little bit before seeing the consistent results over the chronograph that I wanted to see which was about 2900 fps. I never saw any indication that there problems developing in terms of the fired cases. Winchester had stated a velocity at max load of about 2,950 with 780 so I felt good staying below that. My Nosler 6 had velocities of 3000 to 3100 with other slower powders so I was well below that. But I am quite satisfied. I noted over time that the Nosler books seem to be high on velocity too. One thing I did find was the Winchester factory loaded CT 160 ABs went exactly what they said velocity wise. Wow. On another note I find the Sierra book generally states the velocities close as well when working with the Sierra data. So in the end these loads are accurate and pretty fast at 2900. I found a great shooting load at 2800. And a solid repeatable cold barrel shot. While I have 780 left, I just this week bought Norma MRP as it is very close to the 780. But I haven't wanted to get in to the all the load work. Yet.  In about 2000 when I started here on AR there was a post by Ray and Alan Day too that said something to the effect that a good group is great, but get that cold barrel shot down as it is the one that counts in these hunting rifles. I like to see a good and fast group, but I really feel like I have it when that CBS hits the same hole 2 or 3 times. At 2900 fps I know it will do the job. | |||
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The loose primer pocket check is great too. In mine using Fed 215 the pockets are tight. But even in new unfired cases the newer Winchester primers, the gold ones, slip in with very low effort as they are just a little smaller. So check that out too. After reading all of this I went out and sectioned a 2X fired WW case, which was a 3X FL sized case, from my 7mmRM. I also checked the case body dimensions, belt, above the belt, and case head versus a new unfired case dimensions and they were spot on. The case sectioning showed nothing out of order inside the case. There was no ring inside above the belt or head, no splits or cracks developing anywhere and the case thickness was uniform and the same as a new case. Now if it will just stay that way a while. I am still going to work some more with the Redding S FL bushing die. But as I stated above, the rifle not only doesnt like chambering those from the S die, it also isn't as accurate as with the regular FL resized cases. Weird. Total runout on the case neck is about 0.001 inch and some barely wiggle the dial needle. Overall that part is great, except that moving those shoulders is sure to lessen the life of my brass. After going through full on match prep with my cases, I need all the case life i can get. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Reloading Maximum load for 7mm Rem Mag 160 gr Nosler Accubond
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