I am launching a campaign to convince Speer to make a 9.3mm, 230 grain bullet. I think there is a market for a deer type 9.3 bullet, and there is none on the market except for the 232 Norma; hard to get and twice as expensive as it needs to be for a simple deer bullet.
I need people to help me persuade them into doing this; it would be easy for them.
One way is to call (800) 379-1732. I did that and the rep said better to go to their Innovation Portal, which I did, Here;
http://ideas.speer-bullets.com
There is info to fill out, which takes a few minutes.
Anyone want to help in this quest?

Not wanting to start an argument. You are a very well respected gunsmith ....

Here is my take on it.

The Norma 232gr bullet was designed for roe deer and similar. It is known to fail on larger animals.

The 286 gr bullet has several configurations - TIG, TUG, Lapua Mega, Norma Orxy, Norma PCP (??), Privi Partizan etc. Each performs a bit differently. I have shared some info with a lot of people on this cartridge. About 8 years ago a major bullet comparison test was done and the results showed how each bullet expanded or penetrated in the test media. The Lapua Mega is suitable for Buffalo, like the Woodleigh.

Historically many Euro bullet designs failed on African game as they were designed for game like boar, red deer and moose on driven hunts at close range.

IMHO the Speer 270 is a very good deer bullet. So also the 250 Accubond and the TSX. Heck - all the 286 gr bullets would flatten a 100 lbs deer easily.

The real advantage of the 9.3X62 is that it performs so well with 286 gr bullet to 250 meters. Often factory velocity was only 2350 fps.

At closer ranges a 358 Win with 225gr Sierras would be great.

In conclusion, the 112 year old cartridge has survived and is now even more popular with traditional bullet weights. I see little merit in a 230 gr deer bullet now.

Been shooting 9.3s since 1981, in 74R, 57 and 62. Then we had no brass and bullets were very scarce. I was swaging down 375s just to shoot them. I see a need for a light deer bullet made in the USA, just as Norma does in Europe. It is not for larger game; we have plenty of bullets for it, now. Of course it would not be suitable for African game and would not be intended for that. Lots of bullets are not suitable for large game so why single this potential one out?
Also a light deer only bullet will be nice for women to shoot 9.3s.
If you don't want any, don't buy them. but I do.

Good luck.

How about cast bullets?

dpcd Are you suggesting that Speer basically resize the 235 gr .375 cal bullet to .366 ? Keep the semi-spitzer ogive ? I think there might be a use for such a bullet (on deer ). I think Naki is correct in suggesting that some will try it on larger game and be disappointed. I would certainly try some if they were available.

No I do not want cast bullets. I want them to go faster.
Yes, they can just take the Speer 235 and make it a .366. I told them to do that.
What I really can't understand is the objection to this idea on the basis that someone will try to use a deer bullet on big game. Naki is NOT correct in any way, shape or form. There are lots of bullets made, that should not be used on Rhino.
SHEER and UTTER NONSENSE!!!
Based on that criteria, we need to stop producing all 300, 350, and 400 grain .458 caliber bullets. We need to ban 375 bullets in 220 grain for the 38-55 and 235s. We need to eliminate all 300 grain 40 caliber bullets made for the 405 because someone might be stupid enough to use them on elephants.
They have a 232 grain .366 bullet in Europe and I do not hear of those hunters getting mauled by lions in Africa. You guys are treating 9.3 users like they are clueless neophytes; I find that those astute enough to use a 9.3 are very savvy on bullet selection.
This is definitely not the response I expected.
Now, for those who think they can figure out what a US produced light 9.3 bullet might be used for, please contact Speer and help me in this quest.
Otherwise, arguments against it seem to be strewn with gaping defects in logic. As Spock said.

Well, I don’t own a 9.3mm nor will I ever.

But I do wonder at the resistence to dpcd’s suggestion. I think it’s a reasonable idea and will make my support known to Speer.

I don’t like the argument that because someone might misuse something, it shouldn’t be available to people who won’t misuse it. In fact, I reject it out of hand: the anti-gun people make just that argument in advance of their agenda to ban guns outright, and that same argument could be made to discourage the production or use of virtually anything.

And I’ve never been very sympathetic to the argument of “need” in any context, which is essentially the argument one makes when arguing that another caliber and bullet would do the same job as the 230 grain 9.3. (We don’t “need” to do anything if we are willing to accept the consequences of not doing it. We shoot, hunt, reload, etc. because it’s fun.)

As a philosophical matter, I’m strongly in favor of a greater number of choices than a lesser number: I figure I can pick what I need and use it properly. In this case, I figure that those who buy such bullets will most likely be handloaders and, I assume, will have a fairly sophisticated idea about their proper use.

Just how I look at things.

Quite well put and spot on,
Thank you for the support.

dpdc

Please read all of my post. I was being absolutely respectful and not trying to pic an argument. I said so right off the bat.

Ok, You want a standard cup & core deer bullet for the 9.3 that is not too expensive. Fair enough request. No problem with that.

My comments were not about YOUR opinion or request but about my take on the caliber and the bullet weights. So my views have as much merit as yours IMHO!

Now let us move on to Speer. They will have a good record of the sales of the 270gr bullet that has been around for decades in that caliber. I suspect that they will make a quick assessment of the commercial viability of a 230 to 235 gr bullet and then make a call.

If they can make a reliable bullet (like the Sierra 225gr GK in 358) that will hold together at that velocity, I am sure it will be a winner. I think that is a very good comparison as many GK bullets in other calibers do not hold together at higher velocities. The same used to be said of the Nosler Ballistic Tips but the 9.3 cal 250 gr was an exception. It was a great bullet and Nosler quickly made it into an Accubond at a higher price!

My final conclusion - yes there is merit in your request but the commercial viability as a standard cup & core bullet (at standard cost) will be the challenge. I doubt if they will sell enough of them to be really keen.

But I could be wrong & you could be happy! Cheers.

The OP does "need" a standard cup & core bullet at standard cost in 230gr. There are other manufacturers of similar weight bullets at premium prices.

Woodleigh make 2 bullets in 250gr. CEB make one 255gr,


BL O'Connor said

quote:

And I’ve never been very sympathetic to the argument of “need” in any context, which is essentially the argument one makes when arguing that another caliber and bullet would do the same job as the 230 grain 9.3. (We don’t “need” to do anything if we are willing to accept the consequences of not doing it. We shoot, hunt, reload, etc. because it’s fun.)

As dpcd has just got in a 9.3x57 reamer and is going to put one together for me, I "need" a bullet for deer, pigs, bear etc that doesn't need to be anything but cup&core. Why pay the long dollar when not needed.

Another source of 230gr bullets would be welcome. I have a lifetime supply of 232gr Norma Oryx that I probably wont use because they were too light for Moose when things gonwrong (follow up shot at angle) and I dont use my 9.3 for deer.

A 225gr btsp or plain flat base would be great.

For interest the 232gr oryx hit the rear leg, entered well behind the diaphragm and came to rest on the diaphragm. Another inch and the outcome would have been fine.

The bullet was a flattened disc of bonded lead and copper that hadnt lost a grain of weight.

In my testing the unbonded Vulkan penetrated further as the frontal diameter was not so extreme.

Way back when I started shooting 9.3s, Speer did make a 250 grain; but I no longer have any of them. I killed a bear with one in their last Ontario spring hunt; dropped it in its tracks.
Most newer users of the 9.3s have not seen those.
Speer may not deem it economically viable, but for sure they won't even consider it if no one asks for it.

Hi,

I recently bought in Europe several boxes of a new monolitic bullet made in Slovenia: FOX BULLETS.
http://www.foxbullets.eu/bullets/93-mm-366-220-gr/
They make only monometal lead free bullets in the most common european diameters. Including the 9,3.
They made the 9,3 mm bullets in only one weight: 220 grs.
I am at a developing loads time.
With R15 and Remington cases I got around 2750 f/s with entirely normal pressures.
I don´t know if this bullets are in the USA. But they are a very good light all around bullets in the various 9,3 cartridges. Specially in the 9,3x62!

I don't like the word "need" no matter who uses it. Period.

The OP did use the word "need" in his second post and I wish he'd said "useful" or "advantageous" instead.

But I think his original post captured his message, at least in my mind, exactly right when he said: "I think there is a market for a deer type 9.3 bullet, and there is none on the market except for the 232 Norma; hard to get and twice as expensive as it needs to be for a simple deer bullet."

While there is some ambiguity in his second post ("need"), there is absolutely no ambiguity in his original statement: The OP sees a market for a cheaper, more accessible 9.3mm 230 grain bullet than the Norma.

That seems altogether reasonable to me.

I'm still wondering why the resistance to his suggestion . . . why the fear of the bullet's misuse should put the kibosh on the idea; why a cheaper bullet than Norma's isn't a good idea; why the idea is a bad marketing idea; and why shooters should not be offered a broad rather than a restricted range of bullets to choose from.

I have visited the Speer site and have made known that I favor Speer marketing such a bullet.

I hope others will do the same.

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
The OP does "need" a standard cup & core bullet at standard cost in 230gr. There are other manufacturers of similar weight bullets at premium prices.

Woodleigh make 2 bullets in 250gr. CEB make one 255gr,


BL O'Connor said

quote:

And I’ve never been very sympathetic to the argument of “need” in any context, which is essentially the argument one makes when arguing that another caliber and bullet would do the same job as the 230 grain 9.3. (We don’t “need” to do anything if we are willing to accept the consequences of not doing it. We shoot, hunt, reload, etc. because it’s fun.)

I sent in my request, and I believe its an excellent idea and the need for such a bullet definatly exists..for one thing Speer bullets are great bullets and won't break the bank like Norma etc...The Speer 270 gr. is not flat shooting and its definitely too soft IMO and Ive used it quite a bit..Its a soft short range bullet of yesterday.

It would be a very cost effective bullet at 230 grs. and shoot flat enough for Mule Deer and Pronghorn antelope..Whats not to like about that? It should not be an argument, it should be a supported request and I suspect it will be in the USA.

A 230 gr. 9.3x62 bullet would shoot as flat as a 180 gr. 30-06 and arrive with more punch, leave a better blood trail..Any time we can get another bullet Im for it, it creates a better caliber more effective caliber out of any caliber and fills a void in that caliber..

Why would anyone be negative over that improvement is beyond me.

As usual, Ray sees through it all and has excellent insight. Based on his long and varied experience that most of us will never have.
Wish I had said it like that.

If it is for Moose why not go premium? Barnes TSX come in 250gr. It works well out to 250+ meters as does the 250gr Accubond.

quote:

Originally posted by 1894mk2:
Another source of 230gr bullets would be welcome. I have a lifetime supply of 232gr Norma Oryx that I probably wont use because they were too light for Moose when things gonwrong (follow up shot at angle) and I dont use my 9.3 for deer.

A 225gr btsp or plain flat base would be great.

Slightly off topic, Ken Water's Pet loads on the 358 Win used a MCA rifle I think with a 366 slugged barrel! All his loads used 358 bullets and accuracy was acceptable but not great.

I wonder if the Sierra 225gr 358 bullet would work???

Went through Speer's little exercise. Seems like a lot of questions just to pass on an idea. Lets see what happens

Yes it is a lot of nonsensical questions from speer. But thanks for your support.
Now, I just re-read the Pet Loads' 358 article.
Nowhere could I find any reference to the barrel being anything but .358. Furthermore, Mr Waters says his MS will "consistently stay within 1 to 1.5 inches at 100 yards".
He shows two targets with bullets touching.
He used a MS carbine, and then traded it for a rifle.
As for shooting 358 bullets in a .366 barrel, do that only if you want gas cut bullets and bores, and poor accuracy.

I could more think it was .356, not .366

Oooops. Sorry , my memory must be affect by Scotch when I read it many years ago! :

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Yes it is a lot of nonsensical questions from speer. But thanks for your support.
Now, I just re-read the Pet Loads' 358 article.
Nowhere could I find any reference to the barrel being anything but .358. Furthermore, Mr Waters says his MS will "consistently stay within 1 to 1.5 inches at 100 yards".
He shows two targets with bullets touching.
He used a MS carbine, and then traded it for a rifle.
As for shooting 358 bullets in a .366 barrel, do that only if you want gas cut bullets and bores, and poor accuracy.

WHO SAID SCOTCH---POUR ME ONE !!!

Hip

Hello,
I am a new member here and saw this post and thought I would mention that Hawk makes 200gr and 235gr 9.3mm bullets. I bought a box of the 200's for deer in a #1 but have not loaded them yet so cannot comment on their performance on paper or deer.
Thanks,
Rich in Md

Welcome; please read my original post; I am not looking to pay a dollar each for a bullet. For guys who only buy one box a decade, fine, but I need a thousand of them.

DPCD

As I said earlier, the economic factor is your hurdle.

You might have more luck approaching Privi Partizan as they make only 285 gr bullets now which are very affordable. They are more likely to sell a lot of 232 gr bullets in Europe & export some to the US.

Fairly well versed in the supply and demand effect on price thing.
But one thing is for sure; if no one asks Speer for them, they won't even consider it. That is all I am asking for, in spite of all the negative comments attached to this simple request.
Those who feel my quest is futile; fine; it might be. But if I don't try, and ask for some help; nothing will happen. I am not one to accept the status quo and watch things happen; I am the type to take action and make things happen.