Just wondering if anyone had tried running duplex out of their .22-250. I was trying to come up with some different powders to try. the overall goal is speed, my loads will be adjusted from there to achieve my accuracy. I'm hoping to get 4100-4200 out of a 50 grain V-max. any thoughts/comments would be great thanks.

If you have extensive experience with duplex loads then go for it....otherwise, I'd not recommend it to anyone.....there are powders of all burn rates to get you the max from just about any rifle

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I'm hoping to get 4100-4200 out of a 50 grain V-max.

IMO....you're being overly optimistic.

Easier and safer to just rechamber to 22-284. Work up load then as normal using a single powder. Rebarrel after maybe 800 rounds (if you are lucky) and work up loads again for new barrel. If you start with a 30" barrel you can save a few bucks by setting back the barrel every 500 rounds. Might get away with 1" but more than likely 2" will be necessary. If your lucky you might get to do a little hunting between working up loads and rebarreling/rechambering.

Larry Gibson

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I'm hoping to get 4100-4200 out of a 50 grain V-max.

Why?

I don't know anything about duplex loads other than for me, I avoid them. But you might want to look at RL-7 and see what generous amounts of it, as tolerated by your shooter, will produce.

I've followed Seafire2's recommendations for RL-7 in a .223 and got 3925fps with a 40grain Nosler BT out of a 26" barrel so give it a whirl and let us know how it comes out.

Welcome to the group chili!

Duplex loading comes from the distant past when there were only inadequate powders available. Schuetzen shooters used the technique in the early 1900s with black and smokeless powders. Experimenters in the 1940s and 50s tried it because they didn't have the right powders available.

Today there is no practical reason to try the technique. First it is not particularly safe - no pressure-tested data exists AFAIK. Second, your goal of 4200 fps with a 50-grain bullet simply can't be achieved within safe pressures. That is about 350 fps faster than safe published loads. Believe me, if duplex loading was practical and actually gave 300 fps more velocities at safe pressures, it would be used for loaded ammo and be for sale. It is not - that tells us something.


.

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any thoughts/comments would be great thanks.

Yeah, my comment follows:

BOOM!



You're gonna blow up a gun and hurt someone.

I have a 22-250, and I would NEVER try such a stunt!

Don't worry so much about getting caught up in the desire for a certain speed. A good consistant load is far more useful and important than chasing a velocity number on a piece of paper. At the very least, you're looking at very short barrel life in your experiment.

Please reconsider your "project".

the theory behind duplex is to not have a spike of pressure at the begining of the barrel but to extend the useable amount of pressure throughtout the barrel. this has become very common practice in savage smokeless muzzeloaders with great results. i do not plan on exceeding 50,000 cup but simply extending my time of useable pressure. I'm not new to reloading by any means and am well aware of how to watch for signs of pressure. i'm planning on some trying some IMR 3031 with IMR 4350 or some R-10x with IMR 4350. i'll be loading some up this weekend and i'll post results as i work up my load. The reason i'm trying this is simply to see if i can. part of the fun of reloading for me is trying something new.

At least post your location, and what range you shoot at. I don't want to be anywhere near you when you touch one of those "magic" rounds off.

See my avatar, that mushroom cloud is you at the range...

Please don't try it.

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part of the fun of reloading for me is trying something new.

I think we can all relate to that.

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i do not plan on exceeding 50,000 cup

May I ask how you measure this?

"Duplex" loads were a popular idea from the 40s to the 60s or so. After affordable chronographs came avaiable the idea quickly passed away. There is a valid reason for that idea passing away...??

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the Hornaday Light/Heavy Magnum and the Federal High Energy loads made by blending powders?

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aren't the Hornaday Light/Heavy Magnum and the Federal High Energy loads made by blending powders?

Heck if I know either way, and I DOUBT you will get either company to tell you what powders they use or their process for manufacturing.

BUT, either way, THEY have advanced ballistics labs available for testing loads in a controlled environment, with REAL pressure monitoring equipment. We don't. Big difference.

Over the years, a lot of crazy shit has been tried by both "experts" and non-experts alike.

It seems like the 50's was a high watermark in ammo experimenting with all kinds of crazy ideas on ignition, anyone remember the brass with the ignition tube that passed the flame all the way to the front of the case to ignite the powder from the front to the back?

That idea didn't work either, and quickly faded.

All that being said,

If there was a SAFE way to get a 22-250 to launch a 50 gr bullet at 4100-4200 fps, DON'T YOU THINK THE AMMO MANUFACTURERS WOULD HAVE DONE SO?!

Please don't try to defend this NUTJOB on his quest to blow up a rifle and injure himself and others. Either he doesn't know anything about reloading, or he's a NUTJOB.

"Just wondering if anyone had tried running duplex out of their .22-250. I was trying to come up with some different powders to try. the overall goal is speed, my loads will be adjusted from there to achieve my accuracy. I'm hoping to get 4100-4200 out of a 50 grain V-max. any thoughts/comments would be great thanks."

About 10 years ago, I played with duplexing my .45-70 with Sr-4759 (I think) and BLACK POWDER. This was in my C.Sharps rifle. It seemed to me (empirical here) that a small increase of smokeless increased the recoil so much that I could feel the difference. I'm not gonna post anything as to my charges/procedure.
My intent was to try & get a bit of velocity increase and CLEANER burning. About this time, I visited with a BP gunsmith in Montana (can't recall his name now for the life of me)& I was picking his brain. He flat out said that the proper procedure for the old timers was to use an empty .22 cal. rimfire cartridge full of smokeless. He said the only thing the oldtimers wanted was cleaner burning. I was using considerably more than a .22 rimfire case. Of course, all of these comments pertain to BP.

Please, Please, don't go screwing with duplexing smokeless. If ya do, would you take out an insurance policy & make me the beneficiary? My wife & I could use the money for a spring trip to Aruba.
Bear in Fairbanks
P.S. If ya want my name & address for the insurance, send me a PM.
BIF

With the vast array of powder available today, I don't see any advantage to duplex loads, but I do see the potential for disaster.

I have used duplex loads through the years. The last was in a 22-250.

I was trying to find a happy blend of one of the 680s and 5020. Someone said " If you ever get all that 5020 to burn while in the rifle you may find out you got too much." He was right on the money. The case was brazed to the face of the bolt. The bolt was rendered unuseable and the action has noticeable set back.

Prior to the proliferation of types of gun powder there might have been some merit to Duplex and trplex loads. However ,today,I see no real reson.
If you have a lot of 5020 or 5010 I would suggest you find a preson with a 50cal BMG rifle and sell it to them.

Oh! By the way this was not my only mishap with DUPLEX loads. Slow learner I guess. roger

sounds like someone should have gotten a 220 swift.

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Originally posted by kcstott:
sounds like someone should have gotten a 220 swift.

That sounds about right. I guess I'll start shopping for a Mod 91 Mauser action. roger

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I guess I'll start shopping for a Mod 91 Mauser action

I read it too.......

I've got an easy way, just drop to a 40grain bullet!

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Originally posted by AI22-250:
I've got an easy way, just drop to a 40grain bullet!

Try a 36" barrel with standard loads. It will last longer and the velocity is free except for the handling disadvantage.