Rem 700BDL rifle, 35 Whelen, Nosler Partitions (225 and 250gr). For hunting loads, crimp or no? If yes, how? Partitions don't have a cannelure, so should I use the roll crimp built into the RCBS dies, or a Lee factory crimp die?
Good resizing will ensure that the neck will hold your bullets and unless you're using a tube magazine, or are the kind of guy who leaves rounds in the arse pocket of your jeans for days on end, why bother?
------------------ tikka 3 barrels
Posts: 360 | Location: Sunny, but increasingly oppressed by urbanites England | Registered: 13 February 2001
Get yourself a Lee Factory Crimp die. I crimp everything from my varmint ammo to .458's. I have found that I get very consistant velocity readings by crimping my varmint ammo.
Posts: 694 | Location: Des Moines, Iowa, USA | Registered: 09 January 2001
quote:Originally posted by samNella: Rem 700BDL rifle, 35 Whelen, Nosler Partitions (225 and 250gr). For hunting loads, crimp or no? If yes, how? Partitions don't have a cannelure, so should I use the roll crimp built into the RCBS dies, or a Lee factory crimp die?
Sam, always try to apply a good crimp, for various reasons.
1)Pressure consistency, 2)In magazine rifles with heavy recoil the battering can and will probably make the bullet go down into the case, generating more pressure 3) It's a good way to assure concentricity, if well applied 4) All factory ammo is crimped...ask them why they bother to do...
As you can see, this topic is controversial, and you must pick your best guess.
Gustavo
Posts: 753 | Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina | Registered: 14 January 2001
Within the last month I got Lee Factory Crimp Dies for all the calibers I currently load for. I haven't yet done enough tests to determine whether using these dies to crimp bullets increases accuracy -- from very preliminary tests it seems that in some instances it may. I have seen no evidence that it decreases accuracy.
One thing that crimping does do is bend in the mouths of your cases, so that when you go to load them the next time they have that bent-in look. I don't like that result of crimping.
Posts: 5883 | Location: People's Republic of Maryland | Registered: 11 March 2001
As you can see from the answers here, this is a controversial topic and you will get completely different answers from knowledgable people.
I do understand that bench rest shooters do not crimp their bullets, which would suggest that crimping does not increase accuracy, at least for that type of shooting.
Maybe you should try some both ways to see what works best for you.
Posts: 5883 | Location: People's Republic of Maryland | Registered: 11 March 2001
I have crimped with the Lee die for my 303 British and 7.62x53R rifles. I did it because one of the statements made by Lee was that it would help with rifles having longer throats. My results were that it helped in most rifles WRT groups. Over a few hundred rounds, the chrono numbers tightened up as well (if you put any stock in that). My conclusion was, that for $10-$15 bucks, experiment and find out. You're not out much if things don't pan out. Crimping never degraded any groups, but if you try it, a caution. Follow the set up directions with moderate crimping only.
Safe Shooting! Steve Redgwell 3093british.com
Posts: 172 | Location: New Lowell, Ontario | Registered: 14 July 2000
i,ll agree with gustavo on this one , and very much so in anything hard kicking . put a reloaded not crimped case in a bullet puller and smack a hard floor and then try it with a good crimp. i have had a couple of times noncrimped bullets back into the case from recoil. that said i do not crimp light kicking rounds but i might try and see if it helps on guns that need help. gustavo hows the hunting south of you i have thought of going down there someday.
It would be unusual to find better results in a bolt action with crimped rather than uncrimped loads.
Some autoloaders (especially military types) need crimped ammunition, as do tubular magazines. Otherwise, I'd advise not.
However, NEVER attempt to both seat and crimp in the same die AT THE SAME TIME. You will be both pushing the bullet deeper while squeezing the neck, an operation guaranteed to scar and deform the bullet. When using a conventional die (which isn't really very good for crimping) seat to full depth with the die backed off, then in a second operation, adjust the die down to the proper crimp with the seating stem backed off. Better yet, seat with a conventional die, then crimp with the collet-type Lee crimp die.
Good Luck!
Posts: 13274 | Location: Henly, TX, USA | Registered: 04 April 2001
All standard dies are designed to seat and crimp the bullet in one step or pull of the handle on your reloading press. Best to use abullet with a crimp grove in the jacket. Heavy recoil rifls like 375, 458, 416, 460. should be crimped to keep the cartridges in the magazine from causing any bullet movement during recoil. Most all heavy recoil rifle bullets have crimp groves for that reason. Cartridges up to 300 Win mg. will hold without the crimp process being used. The crimp grove will limit your abilty to get the best accuracy from your hunting cartridge if it does not like the bullet seated at the crimp grove. Read your directions packed in the box with your dies and it will explain how to set your dies to crimp. It is very easy to adjust any standard die to perform the crimp and seat procedure in one step.
quote:Originally posted by Stonecreek: NEVER attempt to both seat and crimp in the same die AT THE SAME TIME. You will be both pushing the bullet deeper while squeezing the neck, an operation guaranteed to scar and deform the bullet. When using a conventional die (which isn't really very good for crimping) seat to full depth with the die backed off, then in a second operation, adjust the die down to the proper crimp with the seating stem backed off. Better yet, seat with a conventional die, then crimp with the collet-type Lee crimp die.
I agree completely with this advice.
It is true, as someone else writes here, that conventional dies are designed to both seat and crimp in the same operation, but it is bad practice to do so. Do it in two steps. If you use a conventional die, it is best to crimp on the cannelure. If you use a Lee Factory Crimp Die you can crimp any bullet at any place on the bullet -- there is no need to crimp on the cannelure.
[This message has been edited by LE270 (edited 01-11-2002).]
Posts: 5883 | Location: People's Republic of Maryland | Registered: 11 March 2001
Stonecreek, I also crimp as a single step because the resultant crimp is better.
Generally, I have opened up far more groups than I have tightened by crimping. This is with any die brand and any crimping tool. It's worth a try but don't count on it improving your groups. These days, I crimp only bigbores where recoil levels can alter bullet position in the magazine.
I crimp when I notice that it tightens my group for certain loads with certain rifles. Sometimes it helps and sometimes not. For instance, when using Viht N160 in my 30-06, I get tighter, more consistent groups when I crimp. It may be that with this load, with a fairly slow powder, needs a little bit more intitial pressure in MY rifle. I'm using Wilson inline dies so I know I'm getting consistant neck tension. Other rifles don't seem to need a crimp. However, I'm of the opinion that the crimp should be a separate operation, preferably with a Lee factory crimp die.
On 375's and up I always crimp to insure no bullet movement under recoil.
------------------ RC
Posts: 1147 | Location: Ohio USA | Registered: 21 April 2001
I have a factory barreled Rem 700 30/06 that has a long throat. The Lee Crimp helps accuracy and consistency with 150 Gr Hornadys. They have a crimping groove. It is no help with the 180 Gr. I can seat them just short of the lands. I'd be suspicious of crimping any bullet without a cannalure.
