Hello to all. Newly registered. This seems like a good site with a lot of knowledgeable people.

I tried searching the archives for some answers to this question but didn't really get a whole lot of results. I've been kicking around the idea of a 7mm-7.62X39 wildcat. I know, it's kind of a solution to a non-existent problem. Here's the reasoning. I'd like a small, light single shot rifle to tote around for general fun shooting, pest control, and to teach my two young daughters how to shoot centerfire arms. The reason for the wildcat round based on the Russian case is twofold. First, not every dog and his brother has one. Second, while I like the idea of the cheap 7.62X39mm ammmo you can find everyhwere, there seems to be a small issue of bore size vs. throating. If memory serves, Ruger uses a .308 bore on the Mini Thirty and a tapered throat to allow squeezing down the .310-.311 diamter bullets of the factory/surplus ammo. Yeah, it sounds weird but seems to work. Trouble is, I've yet to meet anyone who gets any kind of accuracy out of these compromise jobs. I just don't want to have to make up my mind whether to use a .308 or .311 expander ball in the reloading dies and whether the right bullet weight is available for what I want to do and whether the safety issue enters into it. Enter the 7mm wildcat. Improve the Russian case to a nice straight taper to improve case life and give some added powder room. Next, the 7mm bore size allows a better selection of lighter varmint bullets like 90-95gr vs. .308 diamter for pest shooting and the like. Yet you can get 120-130 spitzers in 7mm that would allow for deer hunting or feral dog control that would basically equal the parent 7.62 with a bit of added zip from the improved case. I know that 7mm BR brass is available and this might be an alterantive but 7mmBR brass is EXPENSIVE. I also realize that the wildcat dies would be very expensive as well so there could be an offset in economics that would make the 7BR a better alternative. Accuracy from a decent 7mmBR barrel is a non-issue, the BR round is accurate. Is there a big difference in powder capacity between the BR case and the improved Russian? Thanks for any help.

[ 02-08-2003, 21:39: Message edited by: Kansas Jayhawker ]

Kansas,
There are already two 7.62x39 Wildcats in existence...the .22 PPC and the 6mm PPC.
The 7mm Bench rest brass is based on the .308 case and not the 7.62x39 brass.
the 7mmx39 would be a great handgun cartridge for some of the bold action single shot handguns.
I have been a wildcatter for more than 35 years. Have tried lots of different things. However, there is really nothing new under the sun. Try to get the Two Volume set Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders by P.O. Ackley. This book has hundreds of wildcats on every parent case imiganeable and is a good read too with many other aspects of guns and cartridges.
Great Shooting,
The Bearman

Please do not forget the highly esteemed Russian military derivate,
the factory-loaded 9 x 39 mm.

I think this round was developed for special ops and silenced use; it is presently produced by Russia's most modern, entirely automatized and computerized cartridge plant, by Vympel. This is also the Russian catrtridge factory geographically nearest to the USA .

In addition, the Russian 5,6 x 39 mm is a popular factory-loaded hunting cartridge.

Regards,
Carcano

[ 02-08-2003, 22:06: Message edited by: carcano91 ]

bearmanmt, I knew about the PPC cartridges. Same trouble with those two. Very expensive brass yet how much would a guy really need for the type of shooting I'm thinking about here. Expense would not be a real issue here. I know the 7mmBR is based on the .473 head size and is a good option for the gun I'm describing. However, BR brass is not that easy to obtain even through mail order. Many sites list it but when you go to order it you get the "backordered" tag. Since you're a wildcatter from way back, what would be easier to form? The 7.62 case down to 7mm or the 6PPC up to 7mm? I've even thought about a 6.5X39 that I've seen mentioned elswhere on this site. I'm just a 7 fan. I also thought about the 7mmTCU though I just like the look of the little fireplug cartridges and have never really been too hot for some reason on the .222 family of cartridge cases. The "short fats" came along a good long while before all this WSM hoopla hit and now you've got a lot of people thinking that some new idea has been developed. LOL

I guess I should really be thinking the type of firearm I want to chamber this in. The H&R/NEF Handi Rifle comes to mind as a cheap, simple, and very light weight option. I'm a bit skeptical though. I had a .22 Hornet Handi Rifle by H&R back in the early eighties. I was not too impressed. The break open single shot style would be easy to train the girls on yet as Col. Whelen said;"only accurate rifles are interesting". Is there another single shot action I should be looking for? I really don't like the idea of customizing an already expensive Ruger No.1. Besides, it may be too heavy for the girls to handle easily. Is there another moderately priced single shot action out there I should be looking for?

If are going to go thru the expence of getting custom dies and reamers made, dont put your cartridge in a Handi Rifle. Go for atleast a Contender or Encore.

Kristofer

Sounds like a 7-30 Waters would fit. Similar ballistics, dies already available, cheap brass, low recoil, decent accuracy, and not really very common. Thompson makes barrels in 7-30, but I don't think you can get a handi rifle in it.

[ 02-09-2003, 08:49: Message edited by: bedlamite ]

The moderately-priced single-shot rifle that would come immediately to mind is the Russian Baikal IZH 18-MN.
However, it is so far only chambered for the 7,62 x 39 from the three cartridges mentioned (other avalaible calibers include .22 WMR, .222 Rem, 5,6x50 R Magnum, 7x57 R, 7x65 R, .308 Win, .30-06, 7,62x54R, 8x57 IRS, 9x53 R, 9,3 x 74 R).

http://www.baikalinc.ru/eng/prod/rifle/izh18mn/

Regards,
Carcano

Concerning the 5,6x39 (which I hope will be found in the next issue of "Cartridges of the World", just like the 9x39), it is produced e.g. by TCW (Tula Cartridge Works).
They offer loads with a 54 grains SP and a 51 grains FMJ bullet, and its V-0 of 910 m/s puts it roughly into the .223 league.

Regards,
Carcano