Shooting smokeless powder in 45-70 using paper patched bullets.
No sign of a ring just inquiring.
I have used cards(milk carton) on some, if there is a air space between card and bullet can this create a ring?
There has been a air space on some...no larger then .100 at the most.

Hi McD!

I have been shooting 45-70s with smokeless since about 1980, fired well over 20,000 rounds.
The subject of barrel ringing is a hot topic. A lot has been written on the subject, many articles have been published in the ASSRA Journal and the Fouling Shot. the problem is that although we know it does happen, and we know what the circumstances usually are when it happens, we still dont know exactly why it happens. The most generally accepted theory is that a wad is pushed down onto the powder and is separated from the base of the bullet. When the wad hits the base of the bullet a huge pressure curve results and rings the barrel. Therefore, the rule of thumb is if you use any kind of wad , make sure there is no space between the wad and the base of the bullet. The fact that you get away with it doesnt mean you wont ring the barrel eventually. Due to the cost of barrels, no one has yet done any exhaustive experimentation on the subject. I have started using a 1/4 sheet of toilet paper as a wad, but it seat the bullet directly on the wad. The wad is light and fluffy enough (hopefully) that it wont cause any problems. A cardboard wad is a different thing altogether.Some of my friends use floral foam wads seated down on the powder, I have never tried it. My neighbor reports good results with 1/2 sheet of toilet paper, I will be trying that next. There was a lot of discussion on the old Shooters.com on this subject, try posting on the single shot or Schuetzen boards. I hope this helps. Joe S

Hi Joe
Thanks for the help. 1/4 piece TP seems to be about right...will be trying 52gr H322, 1/4 TP, card, 350gr PP bullet... a few without a card and will try a few other loads also and see how it shoots compared to last time accuarcy, velocity and pressure signs.

Hi McD, If I were you I would eliminate the card. As far as I know its not normally used with smokeless 45-70 loads, as compared to blackpowder where it is always used. Joe

Mcd, another alternative: 500 Gr. paper patch and about 30 gr. RX7. Probably won't need a card wad and might not even fit. Around 1200-1300 fps at the bottom end, over 1600 fps before the FUN INDEX began to whither. That with a Marlin Cowboy gun.

The wad is a bad idea because it acts like a piston in an airgun and causes a big pressure spike between the bullet and the main charge. Just load without it, but use a bulkier or slightly slower powder that fills the case more completely.

McD
I use a 1 grain piece of cotton ball on top of 44grains of H4198 + 300grain bullet.

I just fluff the cotton up and push it into the case with a small screw driver leaving it just below the case opening. The bullet pushes it the rest of the way down while being seated, so there is no air gap between it and the powder.

At first I was a bit worried about using cotton thinking it might smoulder or burn and cause grass fires but this does not happen. It just blows out of the bbl unburnt and makes a pretty little snowfall 6 feet from the muzzle.

The only ringing I get is in my ears.

Boof....

McD, When I use cast bullets with smokeless powder, usually 27 or 28gr. of AA XMP5744, I use a wad made of thin paper to hold the powder over the primer. The wad is cut from those annoying subscription cards that magazines insert and is cut with a 7/16" arch punch. There's never been a sign of pressure spikes at all in my Marlin. ...Maven

There has been a air space on some...no larger then .100 at the most.

A wad in a load of 90% density will not be improved by any sort of filler. The powder will be against the flash hole without the filler. Position of the tiny air space will be irrelevent. Wads come into play when you get big air spaces. You are trying to make make an unsuitable powder work. I have shoot lots of paper patch 45-70 and never needed a wad. I tried lots of combinations. 4895 and 400 grain pure lead swaged bullets worked really well. No wad. Bulkier powders will give better results.

Ringing chambers is very real. You are creating a situation that will do it.