qustion, I have been handloading for about 21 years. and load alot of 30-06 and the velocity some people say thay are getting is 3000 fps.is this book velocity? are crony. velocity. i can only get 2850. with a 150 at max load with 4064 and a 22 in. barrel. i shoot all my loads over a crony to get true readings than i know where i stand.

While I don't have experience with the chroni, I have been using an Ohler model or two for quite a few years. The bottom line with your loads or mine in any given session is the barrel not the load. Or perhaps it is better said the load in that particular barrel. Some combinations simply defy logic at times, and it is as often to the good as to the bad. I'm sure you have heard the term fast barrel or slow one. This doesn't necessarily refer to the twist rate! Try some other "book" loads with a different powder, and compare the percentage of velocity which they give relative to the IMR 4064 load which you question. This may shed some light on your question. Also if possible try your loads in a buddies .30-06. Good luck an d good shooting.

To many variables between individual rifles, powder lots, case capacities, bullet brand, bullet lot etc for anyone's numbers to match anothers numbers.



That said, with my old barrel (22" 30-06) I was getting 2935 with Rem brass, 150gr Nosler BT's and 61.5gr RL-19. New 26" 30-06 barrel gets 2995 with the same loads. FWIW Noslers book shows 2995-3010 (depending on vol 3, 4, or 5) for that loading. Even the lab's get different results from issue to issue, unless they simply repeat the data (more common than you think) due to the changes in lot#

Velocity can vari up to a 100 FPS or more in barrels of the same caliber, then barrel length comes into play....I disregard all printed data...If I get serious I will fire 10 shots take out the high and the low and take an average, that's good enough for me..Mostly I fire 5 shots and take an average...It really makes little difference in the field, so I don't really get carried away with velocity hoopla...

Thats the beauty of a chronograph. A handfull of manuals can certianly give you a ballpark figure of what the average rifle will do, wheras a chrony will tell EXACTLY what YOUR rifle does.

I've been shooting over my chronographs since 1981 and I've never had one factory or reload exceed a reloading manual velocity for any rifle I own. Maybe I've always had slow chrony's.

The closest I've come to meeting a book spec is with my 300 WSM which clocks 67 fps under the Hornady book's load data at 10 feet from the muzzle, so it's pretty close.

I have had some rifles exceed velocities printed in the manuals and some fall short.The ones that exceeded the manual velocities had custom barrels installed with chambers cut to minimum specs.

Ray Atkinson, kudos to you sir! You said concisely and to the point! Let's let bygones be bygones!!! You remember? GHD

What is your neck grip on the bullet. Do you have a maximum or minimum chamber. Grove size 0.3087, 0.3079, 0.3084...? Is your headspace minimum or maximum? Freebore 0.250, 0.020, 0.005...?

Is your brass 5 gr lighter or heavier than reloading books? Are you shooting at same altitude and meterological conditions?

Are brass, primer, bullet and powder same lot as those you wish to compare?

Basically, I'd have to say that 2850 with a 150-grain bullet in a 22" barreled '06 using IMR 4064 is pretty realizstic. If you want higher velocities with this bullet, I would recommend a slower powder, such as IMR 4350, WW 760, or H414.

Years ago, I was able to predict probable muzzle velocities of my loads using reloading manual figures, and the chronograph showed that the velocities I was getting were pretty close to the predictions. These days, it is my observation that frequently, velocities shown in the manuals are a lot higher than what I get in my guns with the same powder charge! I also find that a lot of the loads shown in certain manuals have to be increased significantly in my guns in order to attain the published figures. This is true even when using some of the same guns I was using in the old days, as well as using the same kinds of powder, primers, and bullets! For example, a lot of the current 7mm Remington Magnum loading data confines that superb cartridge to 7X57mm or .280 Remington velocity levels, when we all know that this round is capable of better performance than either of these other two. So it becomes necessary to work higher than book maximum if we are to obtain the kind of performance needed to justify using the big belted case.

If one wants 7X57mm performance, there are many smaller, lighter rifles out there which will provide it!

Of course, this means that we will have to work with loads above some of the published "maximums", and to do so one needs to know how to develop a maximum load for his/her individual rifle, and how to do it SAFELY. But when someone says "NEVER load above the book maximum", I always ask "which book??", because there's a lot of variation between what is being published by the various loading manual creators also!!

vines,

Welcome to the forum.

A few years back, we got a number Mannlicher Luxus rifles, all in 270 Winchester.

We were asked to sight them in with Norma's 150 grain SP ammo.

The velocity differences between the slowest barrel and the fastest barrel was about 150 fps!!??

All the rifles were identical.

I have found that unless you have access to a chronograph, you're really and truly shooting in the dark.

I once had a pair of pre-64 Model 70s in .30-06. One of them was a Standard Grade with a 24" barrel. The other was a Featherweight with a 22" barrel. Both rifles shot the same 180 gr. Hornady handload with equal accuracy, but the shorter-barrel Featherweight provided some 70 fps. GREATER velocity that the Standard with a 24" barrel.

I've also had .270s, 7mm Rems., .300 Win. Mags. etc., that also defied conventional wisdom about barrel length, and didn't perform anywhere near to what various loading manuals stated. In some cases, a few rifles actually exceeded published velocities with the same loads. It's all a grab-bag, and every rifle is truly a law unto itself.

It's amazing what a chronograph can teach you about the quirks of a given rifle, and if you're a handloader, you simply must have one of your own.

AD

Vines....I can't add anything that has not already been said, but I can say that after using a chronograph for probably 10 years or so, I have NEVER gotten published ballistics. I make it a point to "note" published figures, because of this.
Russ

Again, the books give a good ballpark figure for the average rifle. Ive got a 257 AI and a 300 Savage that will both exceed published data, the 257 by a good margin (and I do mean AI data).

Likewise Ive had rifles fall considerably short, but those were old used rifles with badly worn barrels. When I chronographed them I found out just how badly worn they were.

ElDeguello,

I agree with your observation of over optimistic data nowadays. I think that some are worse than others though. My newest Speer is #12 and of my (not so old) books I think it is the most down to earth and I go to it quite often. I know, its not exactly new either.