Short version of the situation is I have some Winchester .222 brass that has such a small capacity that it won’t hold minimum powder charges. Today I finally started loading for the .222 I bought 1.5 years ago. I actually prepped 100 cases about 1 year ago, but I just never quite got around to loading for it. But I’ve gotten the urge to skip work one day and spend it at the range so I thought I’d load for several rifles, pack a lunch, and spend the better part of a day at the range. So I started loading the .222 this afternoon. The brass is Winchester that I bought around the time I bought the rifle. It’s been full length sized, trimmed to 1.682 (the trim to length is 1.69, but I cut it a bit shorter), and chamfered and de-burred. I primed it this afternoon and started charging it with Win 748.

I’ve got a large batch of Hornady .224 bullets so I was going to start there. Here’s the load info from the Hornady Manual 7th edition for Win 748 powder.

45 gr Min 25.0 Max 27.3
50 gr Min 24.5 Max 27.4
52-53 Min 24.1 Max 26.9

Since the data was so close, what I had planned to do was start at the same place and load in the same increments for all three bullet weights. However, and here’s the problem, 24.2 grains of Win 748 was the max I could get in the case and still handle the case without spilling. 24.5 grains was rounded up over the top of the case. It would seem that this brass is much heavier than the Remington brass Hornady used for the load data.

But what do I do? I’ve never had a situation like this. Obviously, there’s a serious capacity problem. Should I be concerned that even at 24.2 grains I could be at or over max pressure given how full the case is? But how far should I reduce from this to start? Or is this a sign to chunk this brass and buy the Lapua I didn’t buy the first go round?

Thank you for your thoughts.

LWD

Very interesting dilemma.

I picked one of your loads, the 53 grain bullet with 26.9 grains of WW 748.

Hornady has listed that load in their manuals all the way back to 1982 (number 3).

Quickload shows it as a compressed load.

Hodgdon’s website shows a maximum load of 22.9 grains.

It’s your call, but I would use a different powder.

Anyone can be bold giving reloading advice on the Internet. After all, it’s not their gun or their life.

Yep, use a different powder. I've been loading 222s for quite some time and can't recall ever using 748. This not to say it won't work in a 222, it's just that you've got a lot of options.

quote:

Quickload shows it as a compressed load

Yup, a dilema.

I've been loading both the .222 Remington & .223 Remington for many years.

I mention the .223 Rem. as W-W 748 is a suitable powder for this cartridge & 55 grain bullets. I've never used it in the 222; and like others above have mentioned there's many more suitable powder options & combinations for the .222 Rem.

Actually; stumbling upon a "difficult" load for the .222 Rem. is an oddity as normally any reasonable selection & application of suitable components in this cartridge (IME) results in good loads.

Plus W-W 748 as a "Ball" powder is about a compacted as you're gonna get in any given case and compressing it (beyond limits) isn't my idea of the way to go about it (opinions vary).

For .222 Rem. and suitable powders I've always found this case quite accomodating as far as case volume goes. Sure, it could be a extra-thick batch of brass but usually powder volume sit well at or under the neck/shoulder junction of a .222 Remington case.

I don't know that I'd be so quick to trash a batch of 100 prepped W-W brass in favor of Lapua, either. Not unless you think they need to go - I'd consider a more suitable powder like IMR or H-4198 & V-V 130.

Hmmm, 3 of 3 posters favor using a different powder......... Maybe I should try that?



In all seriousness, this was the first powder I tried, and I have never loaded the .222 before. I had a large supply of it for loading heavy bullets in the .223, and that's why I gave it a go.

I didn't really want to compress it either, but I did try using a drop tube to see what I could do. With a drop tube, I could get 26.8 grains in the case but definitely not what I want to do.

I also have some IMR4895 and H335. Either will be a much better fit. Without a drop tube, I got 27 grains of 335 in the case with room to spare. It was in the neck but no more than 1/2 way up, and that's more than any max charge of 335 in the Hornady manual. The 4895 wasn't quite as good a fit but with a drop tube I got a little over 25 grains in.

The local shop has IMR4198 and BL(C)2 so I might pickup some of those to try.

Thank you for the insights.

LWD

I shoot quite a bit of .222, in fact probably more than all other calibers together. One should not stick one's head out and admit to deep dark secrets, but I'll make an exception with my beloved .222: I rely almost exclusively on pick-up brass! There are just tons of RWS .222 brass to be had on our range, and for years I was unable to leave it alone - I literally have thosands of cases... Surprisingly, although I can't avoid mixing batches, if I sort the brass, it actually shoots with new Lapua brass for me, so I happily use it.

All this to tell you, that even in supposedly "high quality" brass like RWS, there is a surprising variation of case capacity to be observed. I guess it has to do with the small case, that you can observe it so readily, but I have always been a bit at a loss as to the reason for this effect. I sort out the cases with obvious lower capacity and keep on shooting. But it COULD be that WIN brass also suffers from the same variation of case capacity?

Regarding powders, I can't help you with the powders you mention, but (like Gerry mentioned above) VV N130 and N133 work well in the .222 case. I like bullets around 50 grs.

- mike

The capacity of an unfired case really isn't indicative of much, and certainly not of its ultimate capacity once it is fired and takes on the dimensions of your rifle's chamber.

Those WW cases may be very much smaller in diameter at the shoulder and have more taper than "usual". This would result in some significant difference in their unfired and fired capacity. They may even be lighter and have more capacity than a case of some other make -- you simply don't know until they are fired.

WW-748 (spec WC-846 or Hodgdon BL-C2) is on the slow side for the .222. If you want to use it, I would advise filling a few cases as full as is comfortable, firing them, then seeing what their fired capacity is compared to their unfired capacity.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
The capacity of an unfired case really isn't indicative of much, and certainly not of its ultimate capacity once it is fired and takes on the dimensions of your rifle's chamber.

Good point.

- mike

FWIW, the best 5 shot group (.206") from my 40X 222 used 24.3grs of BLC2 and Berger 52gr match bullets.

FWIW +1 for .222 Remington

1. 21.5 grs. of VVN-130 w/50 gr. Speer TNT, R-P nickeled case & CCI450 primer, AOL 2.18" (Keppeler match rifle, OAL is longer than standard!). Clocks 3284 fps.

I tried 50 gr. Bergers w/this load and the results were so similar to the Speer TNT's so I decided the Bergers weren't worth the additional expense.

2. 23.0 grs. of VVN-133 w/the same ......

I also stoke the 2 same loads above in RWS 222 brass & WSR primers. Don't have the time/ability to measure the noticable difference - same one-hole; so I just get-on with life.

Thank you all for your input. I looked at the Hodgdon data. Benchmark seems to be a viable choice for this cartridge as well. I have some for lighter bullets in my .308. Has anyone used it in the .222?

Regards,

LWD

The good thing is, I don't think you can put in too much 748 to go over psi. I like H322 for the 50 grain bullets, RL-7 for 40's. 3 .222's and counting.

A 222 Rem case that is 1.700" long should hold 26.84 grains of H2O. Put a fired primer in case and weigh case. Fill case w/water. Clean water off outside of case and then weigh. Difference is weight of water.

The only problem is you are using a powder that is very slow for the .222 Rem.
Switch over to one of the 4198 powders and don't worry about it. Most of the powders ideal for the .222 are extruded powders such as the H322 and RL-7 mentioned above.

If you want to use a spherical powder because it meters better use one that is a little faster than 748.

try some H322. You'll be glad you did.

We have just loaded up a bunch of 40 gr Btips with Reloder 7 in 222 that are shooting very nicely. My Kimber like a 322 load with 50gr TNT bullets.FS