I tend to use Federal #215M and #210M for everything.

Do you see much variation in accuracey and/or velocity of your reloads, by switching to different brands of primer (e.g., CCI, Winchester or Remington)?

Thanks

Though I can't say as I have but the other part of this question should include; "do you see any real difference between match and standard Federal primers"? I have no problem finding Federal 210 and 215 primers but have a hard time finding match primers....

Ken...

Yes there is a difference with brands. I know Win primers are hotter than CCI primers.

Someone posted a primer test with High speed photos of each brand being ignited.

Anyone have that link?


I have only used ww primers and reload and hit the range a good deal.

Thought about trying some CCI's standards Afters years of WW primers

primers are about the only thing in the senario that I havent experimented with except cci mag primers for ww standard on some 270 loads and the cci mag caused way high pressure and trashed some brass with loose primer pockets and heavy extractor marks

I wonder if switching to CCI standard rifle , from WW primers would tighten groups in some of my loads/cartridges 270-3006-6.5x55-308

quote:

Originally posted by Heat:
.......the other part of this question should include; "do you see any real difference between match and standard Federal primers"? I have no problem finding Federal 210 and 215 primers but have a hard time finding match primers....

Ken...

I can't really say that I notice any differance at all between the Federal standard and match grade primers....except price.

The reason I asked the orginal primer question is: I was looking through Nosler's latest reloading manuel and just happened to notice that they were using lot's of different primers for different loads. I usually focus on the powder, bullet and brass while just using the Federal primers. I thought before I ran out and bought a bunch of different brands of primers I would just ask here. I may play with a couple of different loads that I shoot a lot, to see if there is any variation (I do have a chronograph).

When you can see a difference between primers, on target, you are getting to be one great shot.

One fellow I shoot with, a former Wimbleton Cup winner, well he said primers make a difference.

Randy Gregory, a National Long Range champ who is an outstanding gunsmith, says he likes CCI benchrest primers.

These guys are good enough to see something on target. But for me, my match rifles all shoot under MOA, sometimes I get 0.5 MOA out of them. But my aiming, trigger pull, and positional errors are all greater than any primer errors I see on target. . ..

I buy sheaves of primers and shoot the same primer lot for a long time. I develop my loads with those primers and with particular powder lots. Then I shoot those combinations for a long time, till powder, primers, are all gone. So maybe I am getting an optimum load for that combination of primer and powder.

If I were to buy 100 primers of one lot, shoot them up (in an afternoon), then buy another 100 primers of a different lot, it is possible that I would see on target differences between the primer lots.

Primers incidentally are one shot devices, each lot is going to be different for all other lots, due to process variability. The chemistry of the mix is always going to vary. Unfortunately manufacturers won’t publish their data. So you then see these pressure or velocities tests comparing manufacturers, but I will bet if totally different primer lots were used, the results would be a total restack.

I have seen primers make a diffrance in group sizes on some loads and some not.I shoot a lot and am at the range at least one day a week,every week of the year except hunt season or sickness.And I take along from 5to 10 different rifles and calibers each trip.
This is the way I work up a load,first I try to use all the componates listed in the manuel that I have on hand,(if they use wlr I use wlr)After or if I do find the grouping I want with that powder and bullet I try other primers to compare the group size.
Not saying this is anything scientific,its just the way I do it.And I get some pretty good loads for my rifles.
I don't shoot any compition,only shoot for my injoyment,but have been shooting and reloading for around 50 yrs now.

When I switched to the new Winchester primers (I had several thousand of the older ones that had lasted for years) my groups moved several inches. This was in 3 different rifles. I brought my .30-06 load back to the original point of impact by switching to CCI 250 (Magnum primers). I've yet to chonograph the load but doubt if there is much difference between it and the original load with the old WLRP. Based on this I have to say that, yes, there is a difference.
Rich Elliott

So Rich, You are saying the old ww primers were hotter than the new? CCI mags are way hotter than new WW's stanadards.

I've taken my pet loads & substituted primers of diff. brands & even mag primers just to see what does happen. For me, it does matter, for some loads & some calibers. I've seen accuracy diff. as much as 1moa at 100yds (ie, my groups went from 3/4"-1 3/4"). Barrel harmonics can be affected by many things.

quote:

Originally posted by GSP7:
So Rich, You are saying the old ww primers were hotter than the new? CCI mags are way hotter than new WW's stanadards.

YES. I remember years ago about the flash of the different primers and the WW #120 ( which became the old WLRP) was right up there with the magnum primers.
Rich Elliott

GSP7, just found this post and noticed you mentioned a post about someone doing a test of primers using photos, I have been looking for I believe the same link, did you ever find it? I have using Federal 210M's and now with the Irag deal going on they are non-existant. Now I have been using WLR's but have been wondering how they all stack up agaisnt each other. Thanks, Tim

In 40+ years of reloading, I have found primers to be the least influential component on accuracy. I mostly use "standard" primers, finding that "magnum" and "match" primers differ from standard primers mostly in label and price. Virtually all brands of primers are amazingly consistent and of high quality. Some seat a little firmer or softer than others due to their nominal diameter (the current crop of WW's with their unplated cup almost fall into the pocket), while others will exhibit some difference in the hardness of the cup, therefore the degree of apparent flattening.

Many people will argue that certain primers perform markedly better with certain loads. I assume that their observations are accurate, but I've encountered very little difference in actual group size.

By the way, I've just run out of my favorite lot of RWS Sinoxid LR's -- they were date stamped 1973. I'm using on some Japanese made Herter's SR's from 1968 right now. Primers last a long time.

BDLD,


I didnt find that paticular primer test. It had High speed photos of ignition.

I found this other test. It is kinda cool and helpful in compareing

http://www.castingstuff.com/primer_testing_reference.htm

Ive always used WW primers because I bought a shit load of them. I just switched to CCI 200s

WW are looser fitting , CCIs are tighter Fit pressijng into the brass. Though I never had any leakage around a WW primer at all

According to that test I posted CCI standards are more consistant standard deviation than WWs

I tend to favor Federal primers,but have had some pretty good results form others, including CCI, Remington, Norma, and RWS (latter two brands were Berdan primers....)

I tend to use mostly Remington 2 1/2 , 7 1/2 and Rem 9 1/2 primers.

I haven't found primers to make a great difference in accuracy at my skill level, but I have found the new unplated Win WLP and WSR primers to be soft, undersized and on the hot side of the Remingtons and CCI (both regular and BR).

When I am loading my .223 match rounds, they get a Rem 71/2 always.

Covey16

primer pics


http://www.6mmbr.com/PrimerPix.html

German is a highly respected shooter and I have the greatest respect for anything he has to say .

My only caveat is that year of manufacture, lot to lot variation and the vagaries of amateur high speed photography can cause results to vary.

Covey16

Wow, this is a good discussion. I started using Fed 210M's some time ago after being told about a load to try and never used any thing different after. From what I have read and been told they get a second look at the factory and they may help on afew flyers you may get. Don't know if thats true or not but the time I put into loading and shooting its worth it to me (even if they cost a few cents more ) to think its one little thing I can do to hopefully help my loads. Well I only have 1 box of 210M's left now and they (210M's) can't be had now so have went back to WLR's and plain Fed 210's.

Tim

I have been reloading since 1973 and have used every primer made in the US. I used to worry myself to a frazzle about primers, either regular or match, brands etc. With other variables such as powder and brass it got to be a little much, so I decided to do something about it. I looked at all my old targets to compare accuracy because pin-point accuracy is my thing and I shoot 3000 plus rounds each year perfecting it. What I found was my best accuracy was very consistently with the Federal Match primers, now that is all I shoot except with my 7mm BR (pistol) and that gets the Remington Small Rifle Match. I shoot from .243 WSSM up to the .416 Rigby with everything in between you can imagine. I buy enough to have at least a two year supply to get me through the shortages and don't look back. This is the was I do it for what it is worth. Good shooting.

The primers I use most are Federal 210M & 215M & CCI BR4s. My 357 Herret, however, has a definite preference for CCI 250 primers.

Interesting article on just this topic .I believe I either read it on Gunners Den or G&A or Lilja barrel site . One of those 3 is where I would have read about the differences . Standard extra and hot primers flame temp duration of burn Etc. .
Small rifle primers no real difference , Large ones vary . I shall be visiting the Lab next month an will conduct my own testing . Small pistol regular & Magnum ditto with Rifle primers small and large most everybody's brand .

I don't have any Wolf primers but can obtain them . I will post results next Mid - End of the month . As I'm curious myself as to the out come .

I use Federal and Winchester I've also used CCI but rarely do any more . ( Nothing against them ) I just started using what seemed to be working for my purposes .

Interesting pictures of primer flashes . Thanks for the post .

I how ever have been unable to find a heat or duration value on anyones sight as yet . Note how the RWS flash seems to be more pin pointed control possibly better in a large magnum case ?. Remington in particular seems to explode rather than flame out ward .

It will be of interest to me at least to know .

Shoot Straight Know Your target . ...