I load for several different rifle cartridges and am looking for the best method to find the correct OAL for bolt action rifles. I do not use the magazine because most of the time they will not allow for a long enough OAL. I currently load them long without any powder or primer jamb them into the rifling and use this as a starting point. Then shorten the length five thousandths or more.

I currently am still trying to find a load that will give me the accuracy that I want with my 22-250 Remington which has decided to be a major PITA. I would like to achieve .5 at 100yrds or less and it eludes me so far .75 and larger being the norm.

What method do you use and/or recommend for finding the correct OAL?

Swede44Mag: I have used the wonderful Sinclair Tool for determining cartridge O.A. L. for at least 10 years now. I could not be happier with it. It will allow you to produce a cartridge knowing the exact over all length that will just barely engage the bullet with the leades of each of your Rifles rifling!
You can add or subtract exactly any amount of bullet seating depth from the tools result to please yourself. I highly recommend the Sinclair Tool!
It was $17.00 when I bought mine and I consider it the best $17.00 I have ever spent on a reloading accessory! I think they are about $23.00 now.
Good luck if you decide to try one.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

You might do a "Search". It's been discussed many times recently. The Stoney Point is great advice but there is a learning curve in using it properly.

Not sure this is the best way but it works for me. I close the bolt on an empty chamber and put a rod down the barrel with a ground flat jag or whatever all the way against the bolt face. Then I mark it with a pencil. Take the rod out and drop a bullet in the chamber, not a loaded cartridge in the chamber and tap bullet against the lands. Then put the rod back in the barrel and mark it again. I measure the distance between the two marks, I subtract 50k for barnes and 3-10k depending on whats most accurate. Sometimes Mag length is to short doesnt let you do that and with Wby's and free bore it's a wasted effort.

I have tried the method you have suggested it works good but I am never sure if I have pushed the bullet in to far.

Thank you for your suggestion.

Follow the instructions outlined in the nosler reloading manual.

I have seen it in my Sinclar catalog but I have a question do you use a bullet with it if not how does it work. They are vague on there description. I guess since they know how it works they assume that every one else will also. Can you explain how to use it? And what powder do you think is the best for a 22-250?

Thanks for your help.

Could you please tell me which Nosler manual # I will look it up.

Thanks.

With regards to the powder for the 22-250, there are three powders to try in my opinion, and 1 will work in most every rifle with a 1-14 or 1-12 twist and using bullets up to 55 grains: H380 (my favorite), H4895, and varget. Try the latter two first since they are less temp sensitive, unless you are using a progressive press, then try H380 first. With the 53 and 55 grain bullets, you should land at around 38 or 39 grains of H380.

Honestly though, read the section in the nosler manual about finding the distance to the lands. It is a cheap and easy way to measure. As Bob said too, do a search. It has been brought up many times.

I have a pound of 380 havent tried it yet. I am using Wilson Stainless 22-250 Bench-rest Dies with a micrometer seater. Takes more time to load with but I dont know of a more accurate method.

Sorry swede, I didn't see your question about which nosler manual before your last question. I have the newest manual (#5). The steps are easy to follow. Basicly, you take a fireformed case and slightly smash both sides of the neck at the mouth. Then, use a black marker and color a bullet black. Then, slide the bullet slightly into the fireformed case. There should be tension from you smashing the mouth (only push the bullet in a little ways). Then, place your dummy round in the chamber. Close the bolt and then open it. If the bullet is stuck in the barrel, tap it gently. The lands will have stopped the bullet and you pushing the bolt closed will slide the case as far as it can while scratching the marker off the bullet. After removing the bullet, slide it back into the case to where the marker line is, this is your distance to the lands (actually, slightly into the lands). using a bullet COMPARATOR measure the oal (bullet COMPARATOR can be either the stoney point or sinclair). Seat a bullet into a sized case using this OAL (again measured with a bullet comparator and calipers. This is an absolute must. measuring from the base of the case to the tip of the bullet is very inaccurate and it changes from bullet to bullet and from brand to brand, lot to lot etc. With the bullet comparator, this will not change). After seating the bullet in the sized case, chamber it. Look to see if there are any rifling marks. If there are, seat it a tad deaper until you are where you are just BARELY off the lands. Work up loads with this depth. When you find a good powder charge/bullet combination, then vary seating depth after words, and your accuracy will change. Note the OAL of your most accurate load (again, measured with the bullet comparator). This oal measured with the comparator will not change from brand to brand as long as you don't go to the VLD bullets. By the way, make about 5 to 10 dummy rounds using the fired case./marker trick and take an average before seating the bullet into the sized case.

There, I spelled out everything in the manual, but it may be clearer if you read it in the manual. HOWEVER, they don't mention the stoney point or sinclair bullet comparator and I feel this is the most important step. Also, for safety purposes they say to stay off the lands .03". I would disregard this since accuracy for my 22-250 is .01" off the lands, .005" off the lands for my 300WM, and at the lands for my .270.

Thanks You "shilen30".

I will print out your directions and plan to buy a bullet COMPARATOR from Sinclair. The instructions very some from my past method but it sounds like a better way I never thought of using a case with the sides squezed down for tension. I have always used a full length resized case I guess the neck tension probably was greater than necessary.

Thanks for all of the help I have received.


"VarmintGuy" I still would like your directions on how to use the Sinclair OAL tool.

I got the following from someone on this board... don't remember who.

Take a casing that has been fired in your gun, and squeeze the neck just slightly so that a bullet will just slip-fit in it. Put some Krazy Glue in the neck of the case (NOT on the bullet!!) Slip the bullet into the neck a small distance, and chamber the combination. Count to 60. Remove the case and bullet, and measure the length. This is the length at which the bullet is just engaging the rifling. Most people shorten down .030" from that.

oal will not usually give you fantastic results in accuraccy differences once youv found a good average overal lenght for that gun.. first i buy a second set of dies and have a number one box and a number two box.. i reload with the nubmer one box and keep that one set for my best groups. different settings is tried with the number two set and if a depth setting or a differnt expander gives better groups then that die is put in the number one box.. you dont loose your primary settings that way.. if you can shoot .005 different lenghts and shoot them in groups this would work fine IF you have the die set strait.. the only way to be sure of this is to get a micrometer set on a bullet spinner and this will make sure your bullets are comming out strait.. you could get the best lenght and not have the bullet seated strait and miss it.. i use a wilson strait line seater for any gun that i want to shoot for accuracy.. inside neck turners from rcbs will give you straiter bullet seatings and consistent neck pressure if you trim reggually.. but i think your find your most accuracy is achieved with that elusive powder that your barrel is looking for to get the burn distance , velocity and vibration just right.. try different primers also.. once you get the bullet seating depth right it usually works for most loads.. you may need s0me help reading your groups, and keep the bore very clean...good luck dave.

Purchase the Sinclair OAL gage, follow the simple instrucions, and never look back.

I have found most every method other than the split case method to be inconsistent. The split case method will also from time to time make errors. I purchased the SINCLAIR tool and it is great!!!! It uses A FIRED CASE FROM YOUR CHAMBER to set the measurement. To me,..that makes far more sense than the Stoney point tool. I have had no problems setting my seating depth AT the lands every time. I say it is one of the BEST purchases I have ever made for the loading bench.

Stoney point OAL ga. ( The curved one with the cable ) and your choice of Stoney point or Sinclair bullet compararors.
Stoney point will modify a case fired in YOUR rifle for a small fee.

Works great.

Travis F.

Agree with VarmintGuy and wallyw - for determing max OAL, the Sinclair tool is the way to go. Once you read the instructions that come with the tool, you will understand why it works. One tool fits all, except .17, I think.



The comparators are all different, and one as likely to be "valid" as another. As long as you use the same bullets for determing max OAL as you are actually loading and measuring with the comparator, it should all come out in the wash, regardless. Davidson is most convenient, especially if you leave it mounted, but the Sinclair is cheaper, accomodates a lot of calibers, and works.



The bench rest guys essentially say that each barrel is a law unto itself - you cannot predict whether a barrel will work best with bullets jammed, or seated off the lands.

Agree to everything you say. I like the sinclair bullet comparator very much also. Yes, the seating depth from the lands is different from barrel to barrel, but at least for me I have found my sweat spot anywhere from right on the lands to .015" off, no further. I was using low drag bullets in a 22-250 at one point though that required the bullet to be slightly into the lands, but from what I have heard, most VLD bullets require this in most barrels.

I ordered the Sinclair Seating Depth Tool $28.25 and the Sinclair Bullet Comparator 6 Caliber $16.50 plus $6.95 ground shipping. "VarmintGuy" was kind enough to E-Mail me with directions on how to use the OAL tool. I am now awaiting the Brown truck to arrive. I will be able to focus on finding the best powder and bullet for my Remington 22-250 varmint rifle.

Any suggestions on powder and bullet?
I have one pound of H380 and some Nosler Ballistic Tip, Sierra BlitzKing, Sierra Match HP, and 250 Hornady V-Max.

Swede, You were wise to buy both. You can't go wrong with just using the OAL tool, and after you use the comparator, you won't know what you ever did without it. In my 22-250 (fast twist) using 69 grain SMKs, I am .01" off the lands, and so are many other .224 caliber rifles that different guys own. I have heard several guys say that seating farther off the lands is required for the smaller calibers, but I have never heard from anyone who has seated deaper than .025" off the lands for a 22-250.



Also, next time you call sinclairs, ask them about the importance of seating depth. They were the ones that told me that .01" off the lands for their .224 caliber rifles was the ticket. Seating depth made a bigger difference in my 22-250 than any other rifle I have owned.

I didnt come up with my method on my own, it came from #2 nosler manual if remember correctly, guess I'm getting old.

VARGET, I shoot upper 2s and low 3s with mine. Bone stock 700VS. I shoot Win brass, Fed match primer and 1 grain below mx of Varget behind a 50 grain B-Tip (per Nosler Manual). I am .012 off the lands. Flashole and primer pockets trued and deburred. Sinclair sells Bart's bullets 52 gr match bullet. They will give you the load with H380, they say it shoots one hole, never tried it. I did not want to burn up the barrel trying a bunch of combos. Stoney point works well, no complaints. Sinclair tool is more universal. If I did it over I would have bought the Sinclair. Sinclair allows you to use freaky wildcats and check buddies guns you do not have the case for.

Take the bullet (bullet only) you are using and stick it in the bore-chamber and very lightly tap it. then push a wood dowel or cleaning rod with a flat end to touch the bullet and mark the dowell with a pencil at the crown..knock the bullet out and close the action, re insert the dowell to the bolt face of the closed action, again mark the rod at the barrel crown...Now using a caliper measure from mark to mark.....You must do this with each bullet you use as the measurements will vari by bullet shape. Its exact.

Buy bullets with the money you saved.....

I take a case of each caliber I have. Neck size it. cut a slit in the neck with a dremel wheel. This is so you can push a bullet in and pull it out , but so the brass firmly holds the bullet. This is my Dummy case for finding C.O.L.s for each type bullet for that caliber

Push your bullet in just alittle . Carefuly chamber it so the bullet hits the lands and pushes into the case, carefully closeing the bolt and opening it and removeing your dummy round.

Measure the C.O.L, with a caliper(or useing a stoneypoint comparater also).

Presto you have your "max C.O.L. touching the lands" . Works great for me....simple and easy as pie....


I measure 3 or 5 of the same bullet from the box to get the average for that bullet, but they are usually right on.

Rick

"I measure 3 or 5 of the same bullet from the box to get the average for that bullet, but they are usually right on."

This is an important step, regardless of what method you use. Bullets from the same box can vary significantly. I normally use about 10 bullets to establish an average if I'm dealing with an accurate rifle (if the rifle isn't fairly accurate to start with, this is a somewhat silly excercise).

GSP7's way is an excellent way also, slightly more accurate than the one I have mentioned.