I've been trying different loads for four months in a M-77 Ruger in 7x57. My rifle is an older one, made in the early '80's. Some loads did badly, and some have done reasonably well most of the time.

By reasonably well, I mean I've gotten three or four groups around or under 1.5" with a load, and then for no apparent reason I get a group around 2.5" with the same load.

The bedding was not even in the barrel channel, so I've free floated the barrel. That seemed to help some what.

Also, using a Stoney Point gauge I've found that my rifle has an exceptionally throat, almost a free bore in the chamber. My next loads to try will have the bullets seated about .2" over the recommended length shown in the reloading manuals.

Any other ideas, or any comments are welcome.

Well, as you have discovered, the throat on the 7x57mm is very long. That is both for U.S. and European chambers and simply reflects the fact that the original military bullet was very heavy and long. Not much to do about that except shoot a similarly long bullet.

Your Ruger will stand any pressure fit for the M77 action, which is usually more than 7x57mm allowable pressures in the U.S. The U.S. standards supposedly reflect older European actions of questionable strength. It might pay to use loading data normalized to CIP (European) standards (like VV or Norma) and use a Norma or Lapua bullet. The same situation and advice applies to the 6.5x55mm M77 that I have.

One of the most accurate 6.5mm hunting bullets that I have used is a Norma bullet, called a Vulcan. It shoots when nothing else will. Maybe, by extension, there is a suitable Norma bullet of like design that you could try, but it is difficult to find Norma bullets. You need to remember that the Europeans have been shooting the 6.5 and the 7x57 for the better part of 150 years now, and the trick is to try to duplicate the military load with a suitable deer load.

I have not been overly impressed with M77 groupings over the years and there are various reasons for that. If you can get a load to shoot inside minute-of-deer accuracy, go for it and be satisfied. In the M77, I would probably settle for 1&1/2" groups. Still, I have seen sporterized Swede military rifles that would shoot that well or better with Norma ammo. Maybe that is a help. Geo.

ricciardelli-- "and there are various reasons for that."

I have seen a couple that I would not have minded shooting, especially the 77-V's. Still, most that I have seen would be hard pressed to keep up with a Savage 10-110 (etc.) and the Savage is a lot less money--not prettier, just less money. Going price for a 77 Int. is now $7C+. They aren't going to have to outlaw guns, pretty quick they'll be too expensive for anyone but the Kennedy family anyway.

I only buy Ruger 77's made between 1968 and 1976, NIB with papers. Average price is between $350 and $375.

I do have one MKII ... don't want any more of them.

My loads for my 7 x 57 Rugers ( have two), is 40 grains of IMR 3031. With a 140 to 175 grain bullet, accuracy is excellent,and velocity with the 175s, 160s and 150s are right at 2650fps.

Brass is Remington and PMC.

Recently been playing with H 414 as suggested by another board member here with a lot of respected experience. Have had good results with that powder also.

Just seat the bullets long, I only seat the bullet about 1/4 an inch or so into the case, and they still chamber with no resistance.

Once playing with the 7 x 57 one can see why it has been so popular by those in the know, for so long a time.

I have two of those Ruger long-throated 7X57mm's. Mine shoot best with bullets seated out just as far as the magazine will permit (M77), or about 2mm short of the lands (No. 1A). My long-throated 7X57's require the use of relatively heavy charges of slow powder behind heavy bullets for best accuracy, and give exceptional velocities when so loaded. I find WW 760/H414, MRP1, and RE 22 to give the best combination of ballistics and accuracy in mine. BTW, I DO NOT CONCUR that Ruger M77's are not accurate rifles!! I have several 7X57 loads for my M77 that are 1" or slightly under, and these loads are almost as good as that in the 1A!

In the for what it's worth category -- are you cleaning the bore? My similar-vintage M77 .280 requires at least 25 fouling shots from a clean bore to shoot well. It is a consistent sub-minute performner with many loads -- so long as the bore is dirty. Clean the bore to bare metal, and it shoots groups that could more nearly be called patterns, until 25-30 rounds have been fired. Then the groups shrink to tiny little circles. Not a trait I'm fond of, but I've owned it so long and killed so much game with it that I've learned to accept its quirks with nearly the same grace with which my wife accepts mine...

I used AA2700 and Speer 130's and had groups with 5 shots I could cover with a nickel. I used 48 grains as the load. The 154 Hornady bullets shot well with this powder also.

This mark II was bedded and the trigger done. I cleaned the bore with JB and followed with Tetra lube. This is a very fun gun.

My daughter knocked down her first Mule deer buck at 274 yds with the 154's.

Last winter I loaded up the Sierra 100 HP's and H4895 and culled Coyotes. Again, no problem working up the load seated one caliber length into the neck.

Good luck.

Snapper

As to the 7X57, it is hamstringed by long throats and I was never able to get mine to shoot worth a darn. It's gone.
As to the Ruger 77s in general. I have a 30/06 tang safety model that will shoot as well as any rifle I've ever owned, and I hate it. It seems like every time I handle that gun loaded, I manage to inadvertently flip the safety off. It scares me to death. I have two MK II 77s and they both shoot very, very well. I like the safety much better, even better than the model 70 triggers, because it's smaller and not as likely to catch on anything. I've never inadvertently moved the MK II safety, plus it blocks the firing pin.
My MK II .243 put the first five shots out of the barrel into less than an inch at 100 yds. (I've got the target if you don't believe it)and four of those shots are in one ragged hole. The first shot out of the barrel was a slight flier, which isn't all that unusual. My MK II UL .308 is a solid 1-1/2" shooter all day long. I believe with a little attention to the bedding, it would shoot much better.

What shape is your 77 tang safety .30-06 in, and do you really want to get rid of it?

Thanks for all of the suggestions. I had a long range session today, trying different loads with the bullets seated out as far as the magazine would allow. Powder charges were all at or very close to maximum in the Sierra or Hornady manuals. All groups were three shots and all were at 100 yards. For 18 groups, I got two at 2.1",one at 2.0", and everything else I tried was under 2". Even better, I found one load that stays just under MOA at 100 yards.

First was a 154 SST with RL-19. Groups weren't great, but were more consistent with one group at 1.7" and two at 2.1".

I then tried the Sierra 160 BTHP Gameking with RL-19, and things improved. Groups were 1.6", 1.3", and 1.7".

Next were four powders, all with the 175 Hornady Round Nose bullet. These did very well, with two of the loads giving very satisfactory results.

With RL-22, I got 2.0", 1.8", and 1.2".

With H-4831 SC, I got 1.2" , 1.6" and 1.7"

Then things really turned for the better:

With IMR 4350, I got 1.0" .9", and .7".

With RL-19, I got 1.3", 1.2", and 1.3"

Bob C,

Glad you are seeing improvements. If you want higher velocity and a spitzer bullet, you might try some of the premium bullets that have more non-lead content, e.g. Barnes Triple Shock or Failsafe -- they're longer for their weight.

You are probably already doing this but factory rifles often have generous chambers in addition to the throats -- so you may get some gains by sizing brass a little less. I did.

I also invested in a concentricity gauge and have noticed more consistency in my groups. Among other things, some bullets may just get seated straighter by your die. I think that affects more people, more than they think.

I have a couple of very long-throated rifles and they can shoot just as accurately as anything else -- if your ammo starts out straight and tight in the chamber.

John

Hello Bob C,
I am late to this discussion but I had poor results with 140 grain boat tailed bullets. By chance I got a deal on some 170 grain Federal ammo. This factory ammo shot groups of around 1 to 1.25 inches. I later loaded some 170 grn Herters RN bullets and got the same 1 to 1.25 results.
I suspect that if you use long heavy bullets you will get better results. You might try the 170 grain Sierra too.
Ed

EDG. Lot's of luck on the 170 gr. Sierra round nosed bullets. They were discontinued about three or four years ago.
I got lucky and found some at a gun show, but about the only game in town now is the 175 gr. Hornady, for as long as they are available.
Just another case of the beancounters striking again and to hell with the customers.
Paul B.