I just bought a 30-06 for my 13yr old son to shoot, what I want to do is make up some mild loads for him to get comfortable with the rifle, I am thinking something with a 125vmax or 125 btip, I would also like this load to be capable of takeing deer sized game, maybe something that has 30-30 performance.

quote:

Originally posted by cummins cowboy:
I just bought a 30-06 for my 13yr old son to shoot, what I want to do is make up some mild loads for him to get comfortable with the rifle, I am thinking something with a 125vmax or 125 btip, I would also like this load to be capable of takeing deer sized game, maybe something that has 30-30 performance.

I started my Sons on 165g with starting loads of IMR4064! Low recoil & accurate. 125's should be zero recoil. Have fun!!

Lyman manual used to say you could safely cut IMR 4895 loads by as much as 40% safely... this is with jacketed bullets.

Obviously you can load hot FOR cast bullets and come out in the .30/30 range or less. Cleaning would be more educational too... Lyman has lots of loads for that too.

IMR manual formerly listed loads for all powders for each cartridge... hard copy. Much less info on the site (managed by/ owned by Hodgdon???). The 4064 loads for .22 Hornet were pretty silly, but educational. Loads for '06 with 4227 or SR4759... might be in your range.

So, it is out there and you just have to find what suits you. At one time there was a load manual for '06 only that started with a bullseye load for use with a 00 buckshot... Fun in a basement but leaded... luck.

My favorite:

125g PSP Rem
39g Rx 7
CCI 200

Shoots nice groups from my 22" Ruger 77, at the same point of aim as full house 180g loads.

Chronos at 2550 fps....yours may do a bit more as this gun seems to have a slow barrel.

Good Shooting,

Dan

52 gr. of BL-C(2) will give a 125gr, psp bullet 2900 to3000 fps. in my rifle with modest recoil and good accuracy. roger

This one was furnished by Hornady for 30-06.

130 gr. Interlock
IMR 4064:
44.5 gr./2700 fps
46.5 gr./2800 fps

The common load would be to duplicate a 30-30 load using H4895 with a 150 grain bullet. I don't know what accuracy you can expect but you can go to Hodgons Website and get the data off the site for reduced recoil loads. I shoot a 165 grain Hornady BTSP Interlokt with 55.5 grains of H414 which averages around 2680 fps. This load kills the biggest of deer without the recoil and using less powder and extending brass life. This load is awesome for my use. As with anything consult a reloading manual prior to loading this round. Esox357.

Well if you are a handloader.. despite all the recommendations above...

I can tell you this.. When Remington set about to peddle "Managed Recoil" Loads in the 30/06.. they chose to use their 125 grain Corelokt, and the powder charge is 36 grains of IMR 4198....

I have started a batch of kids on 30 grains of IMR 4198.. with bullet weights from 110 to 180.... I got the idea originally because Speers manual listed 30 grains of IMR 4198 in their reload manual as a reduced load with a 180 grain bullet....

25 grains of SR 4759 also works real well.. and will be a good reduced load.. less recoiling than any of the ones mentioned above...

If you zero a Spire Point bullet with an MV of 2250 fps to be 3.5 inches at 100 yds, it will be dead on at 200 yds, and 3.5 inches low at 240 yds...So any of these are essentially 250 yd loads, if you zero your scope right...

Here's Hodgdon's youth data...

http://www.hodgdon.com/data/youth/30-06_y.php

I can second the good results with SR 4759. About six weeks ago I had neck surgery with a plate installed and the Doc said no recoil. Even though my favorite rifle is a 300 win mag. I went with 29grs. of SR 4759 and some 168gr Internationals and they are amazingly accurate. Like near MOA. Zero recoil in a 9lb rifle. I did have to use CCI 250's (magnum) primers, something about regular primers don't shoot well.

I bet the corresponding 30-06 load will be good, too. It will be a great kids load.
Josh

I use IMR 3031, 42 grains with a 150 gr. rem. bullet. In a rem 700 30-06 that my daughter uses it has taken several deer. It is a 1" grouper.. It did 2300 fps. im my gun. No recoil to speak of.

would any blue dot loads do what I am wanting or is the 06 case just too big??

Try using 14.0-17.0 grains of Unique with a 180 gr bullet. Plase a small patch of dacron filler over the powder to keep it in place and the velocity will be in the 1400-1650 fps. If you have access to the Lyman Reloading manual, it contains loads of reduce loading data. I substitute the cast bullets with copper jacketed and load away. I do recommend using the dacron filler.

I worked up squirrel loads for my '06. I used a lot of combinations to find one that shot to the same POI as my deer loads. Mid 20's of 4227 using a 110 gr Hornaday or Sierra worked well and was extremely accurate. Good hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by cummins cowboy:
would any blue dot loads do what I am wanting or is the 06 case just too big??

The 06 case isn't too big at all...

this should keep you busy for while...

Blue Dot Range Report: 30/06 Springfield

Rifle Used: Winchester Model 70

Barrel Length; 24 inch

Case Remington
Primer: CCI Large Rifle


150 grain Remington SP: Case: Remington, CCI/LR Primer, OAL: 81.36mm

21 grs: 2057 fps
22 grs: 2180 fps
23 grs: 2225 fps
24 grs: 2272 fps

25 grs: 2363 fps
26 grs: 2421 fps
27 grs: 2422 fps
28 grs: 2512 fps

Consider 27 grains as max load for reliable brass life. Recoil was greatly reduced, ( guestimate of 50% or more!) Accuracy was excellent in my Winchester Model 70. There are a lot of good bullets available that would work well at these velocities. My favorite is the ballistic tip and the 150 grain round noses. The 150 grain FN meant for the 30/30 would also be a good bullet. Speer’s Magtip also does an excellent job.

I would not hesitate to use these loads on any deer. At 24 grains, a 3.5 inch high zero at 100 yds, would be close to dead on at 200 yds. Penetration is a lot better than most people would believe reading modern ballistic charts.
Good shot placement, and you would be surprised what these loads will do.

I have taken an Elk, ( cow) at 175 yds, that weight 650 lbs on the hoof. She was taken at a broadside shot at a dead gallop. The load was a 165 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip, with an MV of 2250fps. The bullet penetrated all the way thru and was lodged on the far side under the hide. It destroyed both lungs and the liver, while cutting the esophagus in half also. The Elk cow went 50 yds and expired.

This load was not being carried to try and prove a point. As typical in hunting, the wrong ammo got packed for the trip, in the rush to get going.
It was all I had with me, which meant use it, or NOHunt! I decided to hunt.
90 minutes or less, I had the Elk down!

165 grain Sierra SP: Fed 210 Primer, Win Brass, OAL: 82.50 mm

20 grains: 1852 fps
21 grains: 1894 fps
22 grains: 1986 fps
23 grains: 2047 fps

24 grains: 2102 fps
25 grains: 2157 fps
26 grains: 2228 fps

I recommend stopping at 25 grains. 26 grains gave a few stiff bolt extractions.


180 grain Remington SP: Fed 210 Primer, Win Brass, OAL: 80.85mm

20 grains: 1762 fps
21 grains: 1814 fps
22 grains: 1882 fps
23 grains: 1955 fps
24 grains: 2022 fps
25 grains: 2076 fps.

The Nosler Ballistic tip would be a GREAT bullet in these applications, due to it being able to open up at low velocities and be deadly on game. I prefer Round Nose bullets or bullets like Speers Mag Tip also in reduced loads.
Honorable mention will go to 170 grain 30/30 bullets from multiple manufacturers that were design to work in this velocity ranges.

Accuracy with all weights were exceptional.

cheers
seafire

I've playing with what Waters called "30/30'06" loads for a while using Lyman Cast Bullet manual data for IMR3031, RL7, and IMR4198 under 125 and 150 gr jacketed bullets. Some shot as well as my M700 rifle is capable of but I've yet to run any into a deer. We've also had good luck with the Remington 125 gr Managed Recoil and Federal's 170 gr Low Recoil load, as in 5 deer for 5 shots. My son and I find that the 308 managed recoil load is light-kicking in his Kimber but so far the rifle doesn't want to shoot it accurately. I'll be testing the 115 gr 270 load in my Encore next month...

As tsturm was saying cast bullets have their place and this appears to be one of them.
personally I use a 155 cast #2 hardness with
Unique powder and it has taken MANY whitetails
up here in northern Cal.
Whatever you choose, get him shooting!

seafire2, Do you know what primer Remington uses? I fired some today in my rifle and they where 3/4" Group. MY 13 year old son shot tow boxes.

quote:

Originally posted by tradewinds:
seafire2, Do you know what primer Remington uses? I fired some today in my rifle and they where 3/4" Group. MY 13 year old son shot tow boxes.

Should be there regular 9 1/2 primer... not the magnum.. no magnum is needed in those types of loads...

25. Blue Dot (less if it is accurate)
130 SSP (Hornady)
125 BT or Remington

Little recoil.

Developed from Seafires original posting.

Cummins Cowboy,

For reduced recoil and reduced velocity try some 110gr bullets and IMR 7383 spotter powder. It will give good loading density and low velocity as its very bulky vs weight and slow burning. The powder is $3 a pound at Pats Reloading. It has a burning rate between IMR 4064 and 4350. Its a 50 spotter powder. Pat has virgin 7383. Go to www.patsreloading.com

Good luck

Corbin

Price of brass sure has gone up also after looking at his site!

Seafire2,

How do you know Remingotn uses IMR4198 in the managed recoil loads? They shot good in my rifle and I want to duplicate the load.

Thanks,

quote:

Originally posted by tradewinds:
Seafire2,

How do you know Remingotn uses IMR4198 in the managed recoil loads? They shot good in my rifle and I want to duplicate the load. Thanks,

the tooth fairy left a note under his mushroom. roger

quote:

the tooth fairy left a note under his mushroom.

So Roger.. that was you in that pink tutu putting a quarter under my pillow!!!! Thanks Guy!

As far as how do I know that it is IMR 4198 they are using... well unless it is another powder that looks just like 4198 ( others do under the IMR line)... but after disassembling some rounds.. noting the powder charge weight and then chronographing them....

Then loading up the same thing in my 06 with the same bullet weights and the same charge of IMR 4198 and chronographing them.. and getting the same velocities....

it was a pretty fair assumption... and if it isn't IMR 4198, then you can duplicate the loads by using it and the same bullet weights...

Besides Roger wrote all of that down on a 3 x 5 card when he put that quarter under my pillow....

and if you ever met Roger ( which I have had the pleasure) you will understand what an "all knowing" Obe Waan Konobe kind of guy he is...

Thanks I will try it.