I have read that the brass from MilSurp 7.62X51 ammo is unusable for reloading. Is that really so? If so, why?

The reason is that I am going to be reloading my own 7.62X51 or .308 Win (my rifle will accept either) ere long and since I have 500+ rounds of German-made NATO 7.62X51 ammo the brass would sorta kickstart my operation.

But you guys are the ones with the smarts, knowledge and experience. What do YOU say?

Thanks in advance

Most Euro Mfg. ammo is Berdan Primed. Might want to check for that first.

2nd option, also there are some Euro Mfg. ammo that is steel cased, tho these are rare in Nato ammo..

The only problem I ever had was with some soft Venusuelian brass. roger

[quote=MopaneMike]Berdan Primed[/quote]

quote:

Most Euro Mfg. ammo is Berdan Primed. Might want to check for that first.

Thanks, MopaneMike & bartsche. Using the phrase "Berdan Primed" I did a quick google search and now understand. I'll have to look at the bottom of a fired cartridge to confirm that the MilSurp ammo I already have is, indeed, berdan primed although being German I suspect it is. If so then I won't worry about collecting the surplus brass.

Again thanks for the quick reply.

In my opinion, once-fired U.S. military boxer-primed 7.62 brass is among the very best brass you can get for hunting rifles. I have been using it for over 30 years and it has never failed me yet unless I screwed it up as I loaded it.

It is intended for use where it won't be babied, and is strong enough to survive chambers which are not fully within specs, without harming either the weapon or the shooter.

Plus, it is thick enough to reach the same ballistics as commercial civilian brass with slightly less powder, and is dirt cheap to obrtain relatively speaking.

It may take a little more effort to reload, if it is some of the brass which has "crimped-in" primers, but even there, I find it well worth the trouble. And the used military "match" stuff which does not have the primers crimped is a joy to my heart.

quote:

It may take a little more effort to reload, if it is some of the brass which has "crimped-in" primers, but even there, I find it well worth the trouble. And the used military "match" stuff which does not have the primers crimped is a joy to my heart.

Dillons makes a swaging tool for this. I've heard of problems with milsurp brass that was fired in M60s. Apparently, the chambers are so large there's a lot of stretch, but I don't have any personal experience with this.

LWD

MEN blackspot, in fact all the ~MEN stuff, is berdan primed.

Chuck the cases away mate, they're more trouble reloading than it's worth.

quote:

Originally posted by Ghubert:
MEN blackspot, in fact all the ~MEN stuff, is berdan primed.

Chuck the cases away mate, they're more trouble reloading than it's worth.

With scrap brass at record high prices it is worth saving it up & taking to the recyclers.
The last bucketful I took in gained me £54.00

Fair play Oddbod, the club get's the brass we "chuck away" on the range.

I'm just off to check the financial reports from last year......

quote:

Originally posted by LWD:
[Dillons makes a swaging tool for this. I've heard of problems with milsurp brass that was fired in M60s. Apparently, the chambers are so large there's a lot of stretch, but I don't have any personal experience with this.

LWD

Yes Dillon makes an excellent tool for taking the crimp out of milsurp brass. Some people like it, some don't, just like about everything else in this world. Personally I think it does a marvelous job, easily and quickly, so I have been using mine for almost 25 years. (The Dillon tool IS quite pricey, though.)

And yes, brass fired in machineguns can be ruined for practical reloading, particularly if the gunner doesn't have the headspace set correctly on his MG. That used to be a fairly common occurance when the military round in the U.S. was the '06. I don't know if the headspace is even still adjustable by the user in the newer 7.62 machineguns. I owned a brand new Maremont M60 of my own in 1983, but don't recall whether the headspace was adjustable. I suspect it was, but don't recall.

Luckily, most of the places I've bought used U.S. military brass inspect it before selling it, to make sure it hasn't been fired in a gun which ruined it for its intended purpose.

So, yes, U.S. military brass can be bad stuff if it is abused enough. But it starts out as very, very good brass, and fired in most rifles it stays good. But like anything else one gets cheaply, it should be carefully inspected before using it in one's rifles.

Hello, all. I finally got around to digging out a case I saved from the last time I took the FNAR to the range and looking in the bottom. Sure enough there are two little holes, not one larger one. So I guess it is for sure that the German MilSurp ammo I bought is Berdan primed.

Oh, well.

Now I have to find a source for usable .308 Win/7.62X51 brass. I'll post a question to that effect to see if anyone already knows where to get it - if not cheap then as inexpensive as possible.

Again, thanks, all.

Just for grins and giggles, Alberta Canuk, where do you get YOUR 7.62X51 brass??

Well, I don't remember which one it was, but my last order was either from Powder Valley or Jeff Bartlett. There is one other I used to buy from, but at the moment I don't recall the name for sure...something like "G.I. Brass", IIRC. I also use a lot of IVI-74, which was obtained free from the Canadian government as loaded ammo.

Normally I buy it 1,000 rounds at a time, as I use it as donor stock to make other cases from. Also, that seems to be the quantity it is most commonly offered in, and it's convenient to buy in multiples of 1,000 as it cuts the overall shipping costs a bit.

quote:

Originally posted by B Mullins:
Hello, all. I finally got around to digging out a case I saved from the last time I took the FNAR to the range and looking in the bottom. Sure enough there are two little holes, not one larger one. So I guess it is for sure that the German MilSurp ammo I bought is Berdan primed.

Oh, well.

Now I have to find a source for usable .308 Win/7.62X51 brass. I'll post a question to that effect to see if anyone already knows where to get it - if not cheap then as inexpensive as possible.

Again, thanks, all.

You might check around with your local stockists to see if they carry (or can get) Berdan primers. Most Americans think Berdan-primed brass is not reloadable, but it is, and there are several different tools on the market for removing the old primers. And if you don't want to buy one, just file or grind a chisel end on an ice pick. That will work just fine.

Drill a hole in a plank which is big enough around to let most but not all of the tapered brass case fall into it. Drop in a case, place the chisel part of the ice pick off center on the fired primer, and give the butt of the handle a bit of a mild rap with a plastic hammer. It will penetrate the fired cap, and you can then easily pry it out in one quik motion once you get the hang of it.

Once it is out, just recap the same way you would with Boxer primers.

I've been doing it for 50+ years, using Norma brand Berdan primers and it works fine. I use a Lachmiller decapper, but it is the same principle at play. (RCBS also makes one.)

There is also a hydraulic decapper now available which uses a single drop of water to decap Berdan cases, and avoids all the mess which used to accompany hydraulic decapping. You'll have to Google it up though, I have forgotten the name of the manufacturer.

If you do find a stockist with Berdan primers, very carefully measure the diameter and depth of one of the fired caps before buying any. Berdan primers come in MANY sizes.

---------------------------------

I copied the following for the information of all. The original one-drop hydraulic decapper was an English product, first marketed in 1980. I don't know if that firm is still in business, but I know the same basic tool is now available in the U.S.

Here it is:

Now a new hydraulic Berdan decapping system, sans mess, is being offered by Prime Reloading, 30 Chiswick End, Meldreth, Royston, Hertfordshire, SG8 61Z, England. This company, formed in 1980 by H.J. Kohne, has stated its aim of producing high-quality handloading equipment for the discerning shooter. Their new Hydro-punch is such a product.

The Hydro-punch is a further refinement of the hydraulic method. In very simple terms, a few drops of water are introduced into a chamber at the end of a piston; when the piston is struck, hydraulic pressure is progressively amplified via restrictions incorporating a number of seals and a check valve. The only route of escape for the water is via a fine nozzle. The jet of water exiting the muzzle is channeled through the flash holes of a fired case, and the pressure is sufficient to blast a crimpedin military primer from its pocket. However, each jet of water uses only two or three drops of water!!

In actual use, the operating procedure is as follows: the water reservoir (which comprises the main cylindrical brass body of the unit and forms the "handgrip") is filled with water via the removable, knurled nozzle. When filled,
nozzle is screwed into the lower end of the reservoir (below the bottom end of the piston) and the upper end of the piston is thumb-pumped once or twice to "prime" the mechanism.

The phrase "correct size of nozzle" is most important. In order to direct the jet of water into the twin flash holes of a Berdan case, the business end of the nozzle is recessed, and the concavity fits over the twin flash holes, or single flash hole, qhixhwcw ia relevant.

A hollow or depression that is curved like the inner surface of a sphere....so formed is just wide enough to allow water to enter both flash holes silmutaneously without allowing any to escape and flood out and up the sides of the case. The upper part of the nozzle assembly is dimensioned to comfortably fit the neck of the case in use, guiding the nozzle into the correct position. Since no sideways pressure is exerted on the walls of the case, there is no danger of lateral bulging.

The effectiveness of the Hydro-punch is quite astounding.


Before decapping, the head of each case is perched within a brass collar on top of a hollow column, the purpose of which is to allow room for the ejected cap to drop out of its pocket. Interchangeable brass seating collars are provided for different sizes of case. Since only a few drops of water are expelled along with each primer, this really is a no-splash operation. Cases require drying, but a simple "porcupine", with rows of two-inch nails spaced out in a grid on a piece of waste wood allows the damp empties to be air-dried in a warm room.

Why bother with Berdan brass and the Hydro-punch at all when once-fired Boxer brass is widely available? Well, if you want to know here goes! Ex-military Berdan brass is good quality. Here in the UK it is freely scroungeable from military ranges. It doesn't take many zero-cost empties to make up for the Hydro-punch's purchase price of [pounds sterling] 33 ($52) (including surface postage--add $16 extra for air mail). Extra nozzles are [pounds sterling] 4.50 ($6.50). Much of the once-fired Boxer on the market has crimped-in primers. Apart from the bent/broken decapping pins problem, the decapping pin will occasionally break clean through the almost immovable primer, thereby rendering the case virtually impossible to decap. Since the jet of water from the Hydro-punch acts over the whole internal surface of the primer as opposed to the tiny area of the end of the decapping pin, the problem of primers being punctured does not occur.

The Hydro-punch is by far the fastest method of decapping crimped Berdan brass, and it is even quicker with Boxer cases since far fewer need a second blow to the piston.