Here is what happened: My Dad got new Hornady dies, 230 grain Hornady bullets, and new Winchester brass. He sized the brass and we were able to push the bullets down to the bottom of the case with out much problem. We didn't even bell the mouth. Does anybody know what might be going on? I double checked everything to make sure that all the dies and components were 45 Colt and they were.

It sounds like you used .451" bullets (designed for the .45ACP) in .45 Colt brass (designed for .452" bullets).

Check the label on the box of bullets; I believe you'll see the bullet diameter specified.

George

Yes they were .451 bullets, but that is what the Hornady manual had in it. Most other jacketed 45 bullets are also .451. My Speer manual listed all of there 45 bullets as .451 and that is for the 300 grain bullet that couldn't be used in a 45 ACP. I think even if we had used the .452 bullets there still would not have been enough neck tension for consistent loads.

[ 05-28-2002, 19:48: Message edited by: Sean ]

Measure the inside neck of your sized brass. I remember some old timers saying that the old 45 colt sized its brass to allow for a .454 bullet. Now a day it is sized to use it with the .452. I would think that if it were newer dimensions, it would have more neck tension even with the .451 bullets.

I just measured a couple sized pieces of sized Starline it measures .450.

Hope you can use some of this info.
Later Mauserkid

Also measure the diameter of your expander plug. The one in my .45 Colt die set is for .454" bullets, so I am using the expander from my .45 ACP dies to load .45 Colt cases.

This problem was happening with out even using the expander plug.

Sean, then maybe your .45 Colt sizing die is not reducing case mouths sufficiently. If you have a .45 ACP die set, try using the .45 ACP sizer to reduce the .45 Colt case mouths for about 3/8" or so from the mouth to see if it reduces your cases enough to grip the bullet properly.

Sean, .001" difference in bullet diameter (ie., .451" vs .452") should not be causing the trouble you are experiencing. I use both size bullets in my .45 Colt and .454 Casull (which I load using .45 Colt dies) and have not experienced these kinds of problems.

Even if you have "cowboy" dies that size to .454, you should not be able to push the bullets all the way down the case. Something is very wrong with those dies. Send them back to Hornady for a new set. Maybe include a "sized" piece of brass with them so Hornady can see how hosed up they are. They should replace them free, and should be made aware that an obviously CRAP set of dies made it out thier door. Myself, I would buy the Dillons, better quality.

Dillon, EXCELLENT!! Also Redding!!

Sean,

I have several sets of Hornady dies and have been generally happy with them, but I DID experience something very similar to your situation.

I got a set of .41 magnum Hornady pistol dies, and discovered that bullets could be rotated in the brass after sizing/seating.

Happily, a mail order house sent me a Lyman .41 mag tungsten carbide sizer die by mistake one time and I decided to play with it. Wouldn't you know, brass run through the Lyman die comes out enough thousandths smaller in diameter than the Hornady die that the bullets are tight.

The titanium nitrided sizing ring in the Hornady die is just too large. I suggest strongly that you send the die back to Hornady with a detailed explanation and give them a chance to make it right.

Have a set of hornadys for my 45 colt. Haven't had any problems. Before you send them in call them and tell them what is going on so that at least they know they're coming. They are a good company and shouldn't have a problem fixing whatever is the problem. Personally I think that the die may not have been cut short enough. So if they refuse to fix it first tell the world next bring it to a machinist and have him cut a few thousands off the bottom. This should allow things to form better. You can check if this will work by not using a shell holder and just rest the case on the ram and cycle it up. You will have to tap it out from the top, but see if you are still able to push a bullet in the case as easily. Just a thought.

Here is another thought, I have not done this, but is it possible you did not screw the die down all the way, and your not sizing it fully? Like I said, I have not tried this or done it so I am not sure it is even possible..

Like I said, just another thought..

Mauserkid and yes I carry 45Colt during hunting season, and any other chance I can.

Sean I share your frustration on this exact problem. I have Lee dies and Winchester and Starline brass. I can size and deprime, skip "belling" the case mouth, and seat a Nosler (.451) or Hornady (.4515) jacketed bullet with my thumb. After carefully explaining it to the guy at the reloading store he offered three suggestions: 1)try a different sizing die, 2)another brand of brass that might be thicker, 3)lighten up un my crimp. The last one I didn't get at first so here goes...if you crimp too hard it will crush the bullet and the brass springs back. I'm not saying that it happens I'm only relaying what I was told. I started with a light crimp because I don't like over working the brass, then I went heavier but the over all length was too long for my Marlin and crimping on the cannelure was worse. The bullet can spin in the case. I opted for a Fourth solution...I ordered a new 300grain gas checked mold from Lee because I know .454 will work.

Going to a BIGGER bullet does not fix the problem. In fact, going to a bigger bullet, not saying it is to big for your application, but could cause excessive pressures in some one else�s barrel.. Just get a replacement die, and be over this.... Better yet, get a bushing die system and you can adjust for any brass diameter that may come up...

Later...Mauserkid

Have the exact same problem. "Fixed" it through two ways:

1. Switched to using the .45 ACP expander;
and/or:
2. Resize the bullet area with .45 ACP T/C die.

What it is, the W-W cases are both thin and oversize, probably to accomodate .454" and larger cast bullets. ---But, this is speculation on my part.

When I use heavier brass such as Starline, the problem goes away, but I still expand and bell with the .45 ACP expander die, anyway.

Paladin

My Dad called Hornady and they said that they made some 45 Colt dies that size the case for a .454 bullet for the cowboy action shooters. The problem is that Hornady was a little slow on telling people. Hornady is now sending my Dad a new sizing die.

Good luck, and have fun.... Thanks for letting us know what the die maker had to say..

Later, and good shooting... Mauserkid

Sean,
There are two things that you need to do. 1. Your dad and yourself need to buy a steel(non-carbide) full length resizing die. While carbide dies are a boon for speed and convenience they are not made to full length resize pistol/revolver brass. For normal loading I use Redding Ti-carbide in my progressive press. I full length resize(with the non-carbide die) all new pistol and revolver brass and every five to ten reloads thereafter depending on how tight or sloppy the chambers are. The use of the full length die ensures the the cases will have more than adequate case-neck tension over the life of the brass. One thing that I have found many full length resize dies require is to have a few thousandths to a few hundreths of an inch ground off of the bottom to ensure the case head is properly sized as well.
2. Now to make sure that your nice, shiney, resized cases don't get stretched back out of shape your expander will need some work. In my experience most factory big bore revolver expander sets don't cut it. The .45 colt expander I have for my Dillon press measured +-0.451" out of the box. This didn't allow the bullet to sink in the case but recoil would pull the bullets from the case. The solution it to chuck the expander plug in a drill and work on it with some abrasive paper. 220 grit to remove some metal and 320 then 400 grit to polish it. I turned my .45 Colt expander down to +-0.447". With these two steps I have never had a bullet sink in the case or pull out under recoil.
As far as crimps go I only use roll crimps for cast bullets and, after much experimentation prefer and use a Redding taper crimp die for jacketed bullet loads in my revolvers. It works qiute well for jacketed bullets and is completely useless for cast bullets.
Give these methods a try and don't be afraid to experiment to find what works for your combination.

[ 06-04-2002, 19:13: Message edited by: DavidReed ]