I just acquired a Rem. mod. 600 in 308 Win. with a 18.5" barrel. I want to load 150g and 165g bullets. My manuals all list loads for 22" and 24" barrels. Would a "faster" powder be better in my short barrel? Recommendations?

The same powders that work well and give the highest velocities in long barrels will work well and give the highest velocities in short barrels. Fortunately for the 308 that means lots of powders work well.
I like 46.0grs of Varget and a 165gr Partition in my short barreled Steyr Scouts. It shoots better than 1/2 MOA when I do my part and will drop any animal I'd use a 308 to hunt. You might also try the same Varget load (that's max, work up yada...) with 165gr Accubonds and 168gr TSX's to see which your rifle likes best...............................DJ

Not to argue with DJ here,
but you might want to give 3031. 4198, H 322, Benchmark a try...

I am shooting a Blaser R-93 Tracker in 308 with a 19.75 inch barrel, and I have had great luck with Varget and H4895 powders. I have been loading 165 gr Corelokts and 37 grs of Varget, but I just started loading 39 grs H4895 with either 168 gr Ballistic Tips or 180 gr Accubonds. They both print very well.

dj is right, faster powders will still not give you the highest vel. but you will get alittle less muzzle blast. 4895 is a great pwoder for any bbl. length using 150-165gr bullets. Not the fastest but always great accuracy.

Re-15 is my runaway favorite in a heavy-barreled 20" .308 WCF, and my best load is 46 grains under the 150 grain Ballistic Tip for 2780- fps from the Savage 10 FP LE-2. It routinely groups under 0.5 MOA for 5 shots at 100 yards.

As noted earlier, the powders that perform best in a longer tube will be the best choices for shorter barrels as well. That's something I have been preaching for a long time now, and my experience comes from having a number of rifles and pistols (Contenders, Encores, XPs) in the same chamberings.

IMR-3031 and Hodgdon Benchmark are excellent powders for short barreled 308s.

I use 45 grains of Varget with 180 grain Spitzer boattails out of a Model 600 and always have sub 1 in groups at 100 yrds. However it kicks like a mule.

Thank you to all for the comments and load info. Looks like the concensus is to go ahead and use the usual recommended powders for the 308 and just put up with the muzzle blast if you want top velocities. I've had good results with VN150 in my MRC 1999 308 with a 24" barrel so I guess I'll give it a try in the Remington. Thanks again for the help...Jon

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:
The same powders that work well and give the highest velocities in long barrels will work well and give the highest velocities in short barrels. Fortunately for the DJ

I'm thinking that's wrong (hopefully)... But I'm gonna test that theory with my 20" barrelled Ruger Alaskan. Velocities are very low even eith max loads of RL-15 and IMR-4350, both on the slow side. Will test 4895 next week.
I'd stick to the faster burning ones..less waste on the outside of the barrel..

I'm inclined to agree with 30378 on the powder choices..

quote:

Originally posted by fredj338:
dj is right, faster powders will still not give you the highest vel. but you will get alittle less muzzle blast. 4895 is a great pwoder for any bbl. length using 150-165gr bullets. Not the fastest but always great accuracy.

X2 roger

Even in rifle calibers most of the powder is burned within the first few inches or bullet travel ( I didn't beleive it at first either but check with a few internal ballistitions......). Most of the Muzzle blast is caused by residual pressure not by the excess powder being burned outside the barrel. That's why the same powders work.

BUT, with the 308 there are so many powders that will fall within it's comfort range of burning rates any of the powders mentioned above are probably OK........................DJ

quote:

Re-15 is my runaway favorite in a heavy-barreled 20" .308 WCF, and my best load is 46 grains under the 150 grain Ballistic Tip for 2780- fps from the Savage 10 FP LE-2. It routinely groups under 0.5 MOA for 5 shots at 100 yards.

In a short barrel 308 (20") the above load with 150 accubonds is as accurate as I've yet found.

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:
Even in rifle calibers most of the powder is burned within the first few inches or bullet travel ( I didn't beleive it at first either but check with a few internal ballistitions......). Most of the Muzzle blast is caused by residual pressure not by the excess powder being burned outside the barrel. That's why the same powders work.

Mostly true, but when you see all that unburned 4831,5010,H870, 5020, 4350, 7383 or even 4064 laying in the fresh snow after 4 or 5 shots your thinking is modified a little.

Accurate 2230 or 2460 might be just right roger

I have used IMR 3031 in a model 7 with 18 in barrel and 150 gr bullets with good results.

quote:

The same powders that work well and give the highest velocities in long barrels will work well and give the highest velocities in short barrels.

This SOUNDS counterintuitive, but it is absolutely correct! Many folks think you need a faster powder for a shorter barrel, but the opposite is true!

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:
Even in rifle calibers most of the powder is burned within the first few inches or bullet travel ( I didn't beleive it at first either but check with a few internal ballistitions......). Most of the Muzzle blast is caused by residual pressure not by the excess powder being burned outside the barrel. That's why the same powders work.

Mostly true, but when you see all that unburned 4831,5010,H870, 5020, 4350, 7383 or even 4064 laying in the fresh snow after 4 or 5 shots your thinking is modified a little.

If you use a chronograph, you will find that to get higher MV's in a short barrel using a faster powder than what does the job in longer barrels, you will discover that unacceptable pressures are required to do it......

Am watching this thread very closely!

Just got a 20" barreled .308

Any powder works well especially when it has 4895 in its name.

RH

In my 19" barreled Scouts I get a little over 2600fps with 165gr Bullets and 165gr Partitions. I shot a number of similar groups to this at 200yds with the scouts:



One of the Scouts even shot about a 3/4" group at 300yds with the same load. I think you could push them a little faster but why worry about a few extra fps. In a 19-20" barrel with 165gr bullets Aim for around 2600fps and good accuracy and you are ready to go hunting............................DJ

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:
In my 19" barreled Scouts I get a little over 2600fps with 165gr Bullets and 165gr Partitions. I shot a number of similar groups to this at 200yds with the scouts:





One of the Scouts even shot about a 3/4" group at 300yds with the same load. I think you could push them a little faster but why worry about a few extra fps. In a 19-20" barrel with 165gr bullets Aim for around 2600fps and good accuracy and you are ready to go hunting............................DJ

I am really impressed! Eat your heart out HC. roger

41.5 grains of H4895 sends a 168AMAX at 2550 from my 20" Steyr tactical.
I get very similar numbers from VArget and 44 grains w/ 165 BTSP.

I have a Savage Striker, in 308 Win, which
has a 14" barrel, with no muzzle break.
It's favorite load is a 130 gr. Barnes TSX
bullet being driven by a max charge of W-748.
It has a measured average muzzle velocity of
2800 fps, out of that 14" barrel, and averages
sub MOA groups. Oddly enough, this same load
goes sub-MOA, out of my Browning BAR LW Stalker,
with a 20" barrel. I don't have the velocity
measured, with this load, out of the BAR,
but I am guessing it is in the 3000 fps range.
I am not sure how this powder would work
for 165 gr. bullets, but for short barrels,
and lighter bullets, it has proven to give
me the higher velocities, and better consistencies(accuracy).

Squeeze

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:
In my 19" barreled Scouts ... ...One of the Scouts even shot about a 3/4" group at 300yds with the same load. ...DJ

I am really impressed! Eat your heart out HC. roger

Must admit, that is some very fine shooting - and especially so with a scout set-up.

I know some Lots of Partitions can be that accurate, but few people seem to be aware of it. To think what all happens with that Bullet to get it manufactured, and then it shoots that well in a scout style rifle is very special.

Pretty much eliminates any "Excuses" when it is Killing time.

I just picked up some Varget, can't wait to work up a load!

quote:

Originally posted by El Deguello:

quote:

The same powders that work well and give the highest velocities in long barrels will work well and give the highest velocities in short barrels.

This SOUNDS counterintuitive, but it is absolutely correct! Many folks think you need a faster powder for a shorter barrel, but the opposite is true!

You would want a powder that burns completely with a given barrel length, in order to reduce muzzle blast and flash. The ballistic programs like Quick Load give pretty good indications here. Liek stated, this does not necessrily result in the highest velocity possible, this I think requestes a pressure at muzzle which is high, indicating in my opinion that the powder is not completely burned.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:
In my 19" barreled Scouts ... ...One of the Scouts even shot about a 3/4" group at 300yds with the same load. ...DJ

I am really impressed! Eat your heart out HC. roger

Must admit, that is some very fine shooting - and especially so with a scout set-up.

I know some Lots of Partitions can be that accurate, but few people seem to be aware of it. To think what all happens with that Bullet to get it manufactured, and then it shoots that well in a scout style rifle is very special.

Pretty much eliminates any "Excuses" when it is Killing time.

i'd say his scouts are steyr scouts.

Yes, both of my 308 Scouts are Steyr's. How I ended up with 2 of them is another story. The thing is they both shoot so darned good that I can't bear to get rid of either of them.
I don't use a Scout scope however, both of them have 2-7 Kahles' on them. I may put a 2.5-10x42 PH on one of them if I can glomm onto one.

BTW 748 is one of the best all around powders for the 308, especially if you load on a progressive or with a powder measure. 748 flows like water through a progressive. I've shot thousands of 168SMK's out of my Silhouette rifle using 748. I also have a 20" barreled 700 LTR that got it's best Velocity/accuracy so far with 748. In a 308 I'd try Varget first and then 748 if your velocity isn't quite what you need.......................DJ

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:
... I don't use a Scout scope however, both of them have 2-7 Kahles' on them. ...

Hey DJ, I appreciate the clarification as I'm sure Bartsche does. That does help explain the fine groups.

However, using "only" a 2-7x is also amazing. Speaks well for your Steady Position and Trigger Yanking.

Any chance you are using a Bubba & Bubbetta Autograped Lead Sled?

Only kidding, that is some fine shooting.
-----

Hey Bartsche, How `bout that Scope mounting? When is a Scout not a Scout?

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by djpaintles:
... Hey Bartsche, How `bout that Scope mounting? When is a Scout not a Scout?

I guess I'll just eat some humble pie and black feathers. roger

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by djpaintles:
The same powders that work well and give the highest velocities in long barrels will work well and give the highest velocities in short barrels. Fortunately for the DJ


I'm thinking that's wrong (hopefully)... But I'm gonna test that theory with my 20" barrelled Ruger Alaskan. Velocities are very low even eith max loads of RL-15 and IMR-4350, both on the slow side. Will test 4895 next week.
I'd stick to the faster burning ones..less waste on the outside of the barrel..

Nope...my theory is wrong. I can't break 2600 fps with 270 gr bullets. I hate being wrong. Grrrr

quote:

Originally posted by KSTEPHENS:
41.5 grains of H4895 sends a 168AMAX at 2550 from my 20" Steyr tactical.
I get very similar numbers from VArget and 44 grains w/ 165 BTSP.

53.5 grains of IMR 4350 sends a 150-grain Nosler partiton from my 20" .270 Win. at 2850 FPS.

quote:

Originally posted by DUK:

quote:

Originally posted by El Deguello:

quote:

The same powders that work well and give the highest velocities in long barrels will work well and give the highest velocities in short barrels.

This SOUNDS counterintuitive, but it is absolutely correct! Many folks think you need a faster powder for a shorter barrel, but the opposite is true!

You would want a powder that burns completely with a given barrel length, in order to reduce muzzle blast and flash. The ballistic programs like Quick Load give pretty good indications here. Liek stated, this does not necessrily result in the highest velocity possible, this I think requestes a pressure at muzzle which is high, indicating in my opinion that the powder is not completely burned.

Muzzle blast & flash mean nothing unless you hunt at night! If you want to eliminate this, usea 6.5X50mm Arisaka......