I'm trying to work up a load for my SP101 revolver (2" bbl.). I want to use .357 brass, with a 148 grn. HBWC bullet. I'm leaning toward bullseye powder and small pistol primers. My manual doesn't list this option, so I need some help with starting and max. load recommendations. My intent is to develop a home defense load, which will not go through walls, provide minimal muzzle blast and noise, yet will adequately impede an intruder's invasion in my home. Thanks for any suggestions.

Start with 4.8gr Bullseye...max is6.8gr. Loaded flush and crimped over the end.

I've never shot an intruder with my HBWC load, but I decided to load the bullet ass-backward from its intended purpose, which is to punch clean holes into a paper target. Makes sense that they would also punch a hole straight through a bad guy. So I turned them around to have a gaping big hollowpoint.

I do this all the time, saves having to really scrub the chambers if you use .38 spl brass. I just use .38 data and have not had any problems. 2.8 gr of Bullseye is a good starting point. You can experiment to see what shoots best. For these loads I prefer brass cases rather than nickel plated.
C.G.B.

Just use 38sp data. You'll loose alittle vel. but not much. You can add 0.1-0.2gr more powder for an equiv. load.

If your house is of conventional stud and sheetrock construction then any load you'd want to point at a deadly assailant is almost certainly going to pass through a wall when you miss.

All that said using 38 special data in the 357 case causes no troubles whatsoever, at the loading bench or on the firing line. I've played with the very load you're describing. Shot great though I can't vouch for its fightstopping capabilities.

quote:

All that said using 38 special data in the 357 case causes no troubles whatsoever, at the loading bench or on the firing line.

In the past, there was a poster here that had problems at his indoor range using 357 Mag brass reloaded to 38 spcl velocities. They would not let him use them at the indoor range for fear that he might accidently bring in 357 mag ammo which might damage the backstop.

While the 38 spcl out of 357 mag brass may seem like an alright idea, its best if the headstamp matches the load. Brass is cheap and 38 spcl brass will last just about forever.

If you are worried about shooting through walls, then you are better off throwing rocks.

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Originally posted by onefunzr2:
Start with 4.8gr Bullseye...max is6.8gr. Loaded flush and crimped over the end.

I've never shot an intruder with my HBWC load, but I decided to load the bullet ass-backward from its intended purpose, which is to punch clean holes into a paper target. Makes sense that they would also punch a hole straight through a bad guy. So I turned them around to have a gaping big hollowpoint.

You aren't the first one to do this. It was in vogue about 30 years ago. I think you'd do better with a 158gr JHP or JSP bullet though. I think the 125 gr are the most common used now.

quote:

Originally posted by Crestliner:
I'm trying to work up a load for my SP101 revolver ...My intent is to develop a home defense load, which will not go through walls, provide minimal muzzle blast and noise, yet will adequately impede an intruder's invasion in my home. Thanks for any suggestions.

quote:

Originally posted by onefunzr2
I've never shot an intruder with my HBWC load, but I decided to load the bullet ass-backward from its intended purpose, which is to punch clean holes into a paper target. Makes sense that they would also punch a hole straight through a bad guy. So I turned them around to have a gaping big hollowpoint.

quote:

Originally posted by nordrseta
If your house is of conventional stud and sheetrock construction then any load you'd want to point at a deadly assailant is almost certainly going to pass through a wall when you miss.

This is only a place to START looking at stopping power, but Ewan and Marshall's books are widely highly regarded. In .357, the 125 grain jacketed soft points, like Winchester's Silvertip have impressive figures for the one-shot stop. http://www.stoppingpower.net/

I don't know of any actual court cases where a prosecutor has accused a homeowner or other defensive shooter of creating "super-deadly" ammunition and trying to get traction in court (criminal or civil court). The prospect is scary emough to keep my reloads on the range and in the field and commercial rounds exclusively for defensive shooting (preparation).

Does anyone know of an instance (or instances) where someone has gotten in a difficult (legal) spot for being accused of being overly sanguine for using handloads?

Using something like the Glaser Safety Slug which actually has the word "Safety" in the name and is advertised as being unlikely to penetrate outer walls to endanger innocent passersby seems to me to be good defensive legal tactics. Others have suggested finding out what your local police use, and using the same. If it comes to an argument, a prosecutor is not likely to claim that you, and by extension, the local police are using inhumane or unnecssarily bloodthirsty ammunition.

Forgive me the opinions that rub you the wrong way. Rather, convince me of the errors of my ways and I will thank you for it.

Lost Sheep (Larry)

quote:

Originally posted by Lost Sheep:
...Using something like the Glaser Safety Slug which actually has the word "Safety" in the name and is advertised as being unlikely to penetrate outer walls to endanger innocent passersby seems to me to be good defensive legal tactics. Others have suggested finding out what your local police use, and using the same. If it comes to an argument, a prosecutor is not likely to claim that you, and by extension, the local police are using inhumane or unnecssarily bloodthirsty ammunition...

Excellent advice!

Practice with Reloads - Home Defense with Factory.

quote:

Originally posted by nordrseta:
If your house is of conventional stud and sheetrock construction then any load you'd want to point at a deadly assailant is almost certainly going to pass through a wall when you miss.

Excellent post!!!

Concentrate on killing the intruder. If you do this the bullet is stopped in him and does not pass thru a wall......the last thing you want is such a light load that the intruder isn't killed and winds up costing your life savings and net worth in court costs defending yourself after he recovers from his wounds!

quote:

Originally posted by Lost Sheep:I don't know of any actual court cases where a prosecutor has accused a homeowner or other defensive shooter of creating "super-deadly" ammunition and trying to get traction in court (criminal or civil court). The prospect is scary emough to keep my reloads on the range and in the field and commercial rounds exclusively for defensive shooting (preparation).

Does anyone know of an instance (or instances) where someone has gotten in a difficult (legal) spot for being accused of being overly sanguine for using handloads?

No.

This question frequently comes up on every board where self defense is discussed, and you can bet that if there had EVER been such a case, it would be widely known!

The "inhumane handload issue" seems to be a product of the fertile imagination of Mr. Massad Ayoob.

Anyway, a prosecutor would not care what kind of bullet you used, if the circumstances justified use of deadly force. A plaintiff attorney for the ventilated miscreant or his estate might make such a claim, and if it ever does happen it will be a direct result of Mr. Ayoob having planted that idea in their mind.

I suspect they'd have a better chance of making such a claim stick if it became known that you usually shoot your gun with one kind of ammunition but reserve another kind for actual defensive use than if you shoot the same stuff all the time, whether handloaded or factory. But if you had good reason to shoot someone in the first place, I don't think it's going to be a problem anyway. The suit is going to be over a claim that you weren't justified in shooting the BG.

quote:

Originally posted by Crestliner:
I'm trying to work up a load for my SP101 revolver (2" bbl.). I want to use .357 brass, with a 148 grn. HBWC bullet. I'm leaning toward bullseye powder and small pistol primers. My manual doesn't list this option, so I need some help with starting and max. load recommendations. My intent is to develop a home defense load, which will not go through walls, provide minimal muzzle blast and noise, yet will adequately impede an intruder's invasion in my home. Thanks for any suggestions.

quote:

My manual doesn't list this option

Get another manual.

I am not being flippant here. Keep your original manual, too. I have 4 manuals. Lyman, Speer, Sierra and Lee as well as a couple of small "Single Caliber" booklets listing loads for one cartridge only. Loads one does not cover, another does. Each manual may use different test guns, and the introductory pages describing the loading process in general and revealing the authors' philosophies (either intentionally or between the lines) have exposed me to a lot of education I would have never received from only one book. Having multiple references is a good thing.

To answer your question, My Lee book lists 2.5 grains to 2.8 grains of Bullseye under 148 grain wadcutter Same bullet in .357 case, 2.8 grains to 2.8 grains of Bullseye.
Speer manual lists 2.7 grains to 3.0 grains of Bullseye under the 148 grain hollow base wadcutter. Speer didn't list a load for the 148 grain wadcutter.

My other manuals are hiding from me right now.

Lost Sheep

quote:

Originally posted by Ricochet:

quote:

Originally posted by Lost Sheep:...truncated for brevity...Does anyone know of an instance (or instances) where someone has gotten in a difficult (legal) spot for being accused of being overly sanguine for using handloads?

No.

This question frequently comes up on every board where self defense is discussed, and you can bet that if there had EVER been such a case, it would be widely known!

The "inhumane handload issue" seems to be a product of the fertile imagination of Mr. Massad Ayoob.

Anyway, a prosecutor would not care what kind of bullet you used, if the circumstances justified use of deadly force. A plaintiff attorney for the ventilated miscreant or his estate might make such a claim, and if it ever does happen it will be a direct result of Mr. Ayoob having planted that idea in their mind.

I suspect they'd have a better chance of making such a claim stick if it became known that you usually shoot your gun with one kind of ammunition but reserve another kind for actual defensive use than if you shoot the same stuff all the time, whether handloaded or factory. But if you had good reason to shoot someone in the first place, I don't think it's going to be a problem anyway. The suit is going to be over a claim that you weren't justified in shooting the BG.

Thanks, Ricochet. Well said.

I think I did hear the idea first from Mr. Ayoob's writings, but since he is a firearms instructor consulted by lawyers and Law Enforcement agencies, I gave him a degree of credibility. Besides, I think of lawyers as being pretty sanguine themselves and would not put such a tactic beyond them. And it made sense.

But, indeed, I have never heard of any specific case.

Lost Sheep.

quote:

Originally posted by Crestliner:
I'm trying to work up a load for my SP101 revolver (2" bbl.). I want to use .357 brass, with a 148 grn. HBWC bullet. I'm leaning toward bullseye powder and small pistol primers. My manual doesn't list this option, so I need some help with starting and max. load recommendations. My intent is to develop a home defense load, which will not go through walls, provide minimal muzzle blast and noise, yet will adequately impede an intruder's invasion in my home. Thanks for any suggestions.

Alliant, the makers of Bullseye post on their website

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/RecipeList.aspx?...ls%20and%20Revolvers

suggested loads of 2.7 to 2.8 grains of Bullseye powder under the 148 grain wadcutter in the 38 special cases

in the .357 magnum cases their figures are 148 grain LWC at 2.8 grains Bullseye producing 780 fps from a 5.6" barrel at 10,000 psi, and they go up to 5.7 grains producing 1475 fps at 34,000 psi.

Lost Sheep

Remember, believe only half of what you see and one quarter of what you hear. That goes double for what you find on the internet. Even this advice.

(What I am saying is, it is late, my eyes are tired, I make typos like the rest of us. Go the the web site and check these figures yourself directly from http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/RecipeList.aspx?...ls%20and%20Revolvers or better yet, Google "Bullseye Gunpowder" and go to the link independent of my research)

Western Mass? You might as well start practicing hanging on a cross. You shoot AT an intruder and they will try to crucify you.

a). You might want to review a couple biographies of Audie Murphy. He probably killed more Europeans legally than anyone else in recent history. Picked up every combat metal in the European theater, WW II, including the Congressional Medal of Honor. He spent the rest of his life sleeping with a handgun under his pillow and having nightmares. Lost 3 wives, kept pistol whipping them during nightmares... They just didn't like that.

A young fella was interviewing a WW I flyer who had flown fighters. He asked the old boy, in his 90s I think, if killing didn't bother him. He said it did. He had terrible nightmares. Interviewer asked if it got better over time. He said it did. Interviewer asked the last time he had a nightmare. He said, "last night."

b). If you are justified in shooting, then you are justified in killing and nothing less is acceptable. (Not to mention that wrongful death lawsuits by the relatives of a criminal are much easier to defend than some pathetic criminal that you put out of business with a permanent "maiming" in front of a jury.)

I think it was Ayoob who was quoting a police report on the Fed. 158 gr hollow points (Hydroshock?) in 4 inch police revolvers stopping as well as .45 ACP round nose...

c). If you are in modern construction, sheetrock, forget about not penetrating. You can punch a pencil thru the wall, no problem. Hold it so it sticks out of your closed fist and punch. About anything will penetrate. Nice goal but short of bean bag guns, forget it.

d). Low noise? If you get up close, shove the muzzle into flesh, then pull the trigger TWICE --You still MIGHT miss, adrenalin will be pumping-- the flesh will help silence the report. If you are not ready for that... FORGET THE t.v. shows... You need to think long and hard about whether the gun will be taken and used on you and yours!!! If that is possible, you are better off without it. LUCK.

P.S. A shotgun full of tiny shot target loads at close range will be brutal and effective while possibly not penetrating sheet rock with a lot of power left.

The best home defense load is a multi shot 12 Ga with #9 to #7 shot in it. At the ranges in the house it will make a single hole that kills fast, or at least scares the crud out of the perp. Pump actions are best but you can make due with a double.
The shot will not penetrate the exterier walls but it is extremely effective in both stopping and killing a perp at close range. Shotguns have to be aimed and they are long - that will give you time to identify a target. Easy to point in the right direction and hard to point in the wrong direction. Easy to learn how to shoot and safer and more effective than a pistol.

quote:

In the past, there was a poster here that had problems at his indoor range using 357 Mag brass reloaded to 38 spcl velocities.

A local club in my area has this practice as well.

LWD

PaulS and IiRanger,

Ditto on the shotgun advice. An 18" 12 gauge is easier to aim well than any handgun. A 16 gauge is even easier to shoot and still have loads more stopping power than any handgun, though the .500 Smith comes pretty close.

I usually mention the superiority of the shotgun to the handgun, but you two filled in nicely except for not mentioning the deterrent effect of THAT SOUND.

THAT SOUND of a pump shotgun's action cycling is unmistakable. Any perpetrator facing a closed door hearing the slide close on a pump action shotgun come from the other side of the door will NOT open that door if there is any other exit. In the absence of an exit, the smart ones will sit down and wait for the police. (Though smart burglars is almost an oxymoron.)

One more home defense weapon, of course is a dog in the 50 to 75 lb caliber. They don't run out of bullets in the middle of a fight and take no more training than a good handgun and include a burglar alarm at no extra charge. They also provide benefits no firearm can... they are excellent listeners, and you can warm your feet on them at night.

Hard to carry concealed, though.

Lost Sheep

I need to expand on my first post just a bit. It really does depend on what State you are located in and more so if your Legislators have instituted backed the NRA Castle Doctrine. Basically meaning you are no longer required to try to escape, or retreat from some scum of the earth unlawfully entering your home or your "space". Basically you can defend yourself without being concerned about being prosecuted.

The Ultra Liberal(aka democrat) loonacy of turning towns into Killing Fields and the Police being in jeopardy have of course proven to be as idiotic as the folks thinking it would happen.
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Here is an example of where the N.C. Police tried their best to do harm to the Good Guy. About 15-20 years ago a guy pulled up to his Bank and noticed it was being robbed. He got on the cellphone and called the police. Dispatch told him they were already responding to the Silent Alarm, but they would appreciate it if he would stay on the line. As luck would have it, the Good Guy just happened to have a 45ACP with him. As the robbery was ending the police had not gotten through with their doughnuts or running radar and still were not there. The Good Guy told Dispatch the Bad Guy was leaving. Dispatch asked if he could ease up a bit and tell them which way the Bad Guy was headed.

As the Good Guy moved his van forward, the Bad Guy came running out of the Bank directly toward him and was waving a handgun. The Good Guy put two "dead" center into the Bad Guy. Dispatch was a bit concerned and finally the Good Guy told Dispatch the Bad Guy was no longer a threat.

The police eventually arrived and were all upset that the Bad Guy was now worm food. They got through their "investigation" and wanted to know where the Good Guy had "been carrying" the 45ACP????? He said, "It was in the open on the seat next to me.", which was the way it had to be in N.C. at that time. In a glove box or under the seat, back then, would have been the wrong answer. Then they wanted to know if he was carrying it "loaded"????? He told them he loaded it when he realized there was a problem inside the Bank. Another correct answer for that time.

They really wanted to prosecute the Good Guy, but it didn't happen.
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Also in N.C., a Charlotte resident heard a guy outside his house and went to see what was going on. He looked outside through his glass sliding door and saw a Bad Guy rummaging through his storage building. The Good Guy called the doughnut eaters and they said they were on the way. The Good Guy remained inside his home, armed himself, and remained on the phone with Dispatch. The Bad Guy decided to toss a lawn chair through the glass sliding door and you could hear the Good Guy yelling at him not to do it. Next was a loud crash of glass breaking, the Good Guy telling the Bad Guy to leave and finally two shots.

The doughnut eaters eventually arrived and sorted through the mess. The local Prosecutor wanted to Hang the Good Guy, because he did not "retreat" to avoid conflict. I'm pretty sure the Prosecutor lost his job during the next election, but that could be wrong. The Good Guy had to get a Lawyer and you all probably know that is a lot of doughnuts that he should not have had to spend.
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The NRA Castle Doctrine is alive and well in KY.

Two Bad Guys decide to go rob a Dope Dealer at his residence. They kick the door down and the Dope Dealer blows them away. Neighbours call LMPD (the Louisville Police). The LMPD arrives very quickly and discover both of the dead Bad Guys and a HUGE stash of Dope the Dope Dealer hasn't had time to get rid of. No charges are filed concerning the Killing of the Bad Guys - but, the Dope Dealer is in jail because of the HUGE amount of Drugs. Basically 3 Bad Guys out of business.
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A Louisville 70+ year old fellow and his wife buy older houses, fix them up and either rent or sell them. A month or so ago while working in one of those houses, a couple of Bad Guys came in, beat the old guy up and stole his wallet. No mention was made about his wife concerning that incident.

A week ago the old guy and his wife were repairing another house when he heard someone at the door. Two Bad 19 year old punks came bursting in with what appeared to be an Uzi-style pistol (held sideways) and put it to the old guys head. He said he really thought he was dead this time.(Perfect thing to say regardless.) Then the Bad punks heard his wife. The old guy "feigned a heart attack" and began holding his chest with one hand while dropping to the floor. Once on the floor, he drew his nice semi-auto and put 11-bullets into the punks without them getting a shot off.

One punk died on the spot and the other one died at the hospital. Due to the NRA Castle Doctrine - no charges are even considered against the Good Guy.
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So, I'd say you want to be totally aware of how your local Laws are written in addition to my previous post. And if the NRA Castle Doctrine is not active in your state, ask your local Representative why is isn't. Make it an issue for this coming election and get rid of the fools who do not want you to be able to protect yourself.

And still use Reloads for Practice and Factory for Defence.