I have been considering buying one of the seating depth tools. Does anyone have a preference with either of these and do they feel one works better than the other? I have quite a few custom chambers as well as factory chambers and I am wondering if either one is more accurate at finding the lands or if one is easier to use. Do they both always get a perfect measurement (right At The Lands)?

Thanks in advance.

The split case method is tops in accuracy and speed, not to mention it's free.

Here's what i do to tell when the bullet touches the lands. When i've seated the bullet so it chambers "hard" i continue seating the bullet slightly deeper each time until i can no longer see the lands marks on the bullet. At every stage i use a magnifying glass to watch for lands marks, and steel wool the bullet surface between seatings so i get a "clean" bullet surface to examine each time. If you have a micrometer seating stem then you can take a relative reading for seating depth once "just touching" is reached. I tell you, the magnify. glass is one of my most useful reloading tools.

[ 10-14-2003, 09:33: Message edited by: sscoyote ]

Brent,...I have a split case for every caliber in the safe. I have found that the VLD bullets are staying in the lands sometimes with my fresher throats. Have you found a way to keep them from sticking? I have discovered that the split case works far better and more consistently if I size the case each time before re-inserting the bullet. You have any tricks that make it work better for you?

sscoyote,..i think I wil pick up a magnifying glass,...that sounds like a helpful tool to have on the bench.

Thanks guys.

[ 10-14-2003, 18:10: Message edited by: JustC ]

Hello JustC,

I have a Stoney Point OAL guage and have been quite happy with it. What I'm not happy with is measuring a vast array of bullets for 11 different calibers and finding that I couldn't reach the lands in most of them if I wanted to. We're making ridiculously large chambers now. I have two Sako rifles, and they are the only ones whose chambers come close to SAAMI specifications. On some the bullets won't even reach the case mouth. Stoney Point is certainly easy to use. You'll need a few reading with each bullet until you get used to the touch required for correct reading. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

I have a set of Stoney Point gauges for measuring lands contact. At times I was getting some eratic readings even with a clean chamber. Someone on the forum mentioned using a fired case with a ding in the side of the neck to hold the bullet. Inserting a bullet in the slightly deformed case neck provided sufficient tension to hold the bullet firmly while the bolt was closed. The readings were very consistent using this method. Usually withing .003. My Stoney Point tool is now collecting dust.

Addtionally, I had trouble with some of the special cases provided by SP; lands readings varied by 20 or 30 thousand. Had to full length size the case and open up the neck again to make them work at all.

Do use the Stoney Point Overall Length Comparator. I like that tool very much.
Ron

Thanks gentlemen.

I really haven't reloaded too many of the VLD's per say, the Scirocco's are about as close as I've come with its Secant ogive. The XLC bullets have given me the hardest time because they're so slick and a little larger in dia, but it just takes a bit more time to make sure the reading is consistant with them. If it's measuring longer here and there while testing one, and tension is pretty secure, I try to loosen the grip up a bit on it so it isn't pushing it into the rifling as hard, that's what usually causes it to grab the bullets and pulls it out some, not too little of tension. It can work against you if you don't have enough tension, but I've had more trouble in the beginning with too much tension on them. Sizing the case first, then splitting the neck to below the shoulder/body juncture works perfect for me. The shoulder area creates the spring action for the neck tension and the neck never really expands much when the bullets go in, just the split in the shoulder widens a bit. The neck tension stays about the same over time verses other ways that lead to necks getting looser and looser over time. If they get a little loose or tighter than wanted it just takes a screwdriver or a pinch to change the tension on the bullets, compare that to any other means of getting the exact tension you want on it. Unless you have a split in the neck down past the shoulder, some bullets will be too loose, some will be too tight, and consistancy is the last thing you'll ever get, the first thing you will get is a big freakin headache!

What bullet are you working with and having trouble pulling out?

I can honestly say, after shooting 20 rounds through the new barreled 30-338 Lapua Imp, I have lost exactly .0013" - .0015" in the throat, yep, 13 - 15 ten thou. Not .001" or .002", but what I said, it's that accurate and consistant. For monitoring throat errosion, it can't be beat, the Stoney Point works OK and is close enough for a reference but it's not nearly as accurate as I like for documenting throat errosion, the best one happens to be FREE this time too, and that usually never happens.

Brent,..I have been trying to get a good reading on the 162gr a-max in my 280AI which has just had the chamber/throat freshened up. It also was a little inconsistent with a 160gr speer in my 7mm mag. I think I may need to go and split them all down just past the shoulder/body junction,...as I beleive mine are split only right up to that junction. Does this sound like a feasable fix to my stuck bullet problem? My split 30-06 case with the 125gr noslers was PERFECT 3 times in a row down to the .001".

I think if you're down to the body juncture you're fine. The neck/shoulder juncture just needs to be able to open up very slightly when your putting the bullet in there, down to the body/shoulder junction with the slit is usually plenty to allow the bottom of the neck expand, but keep shape and consistant tension.

I've never had a problem with the 178 A-Max, even in this new chamber and throat on the 30-338 LI. I checked it three times with the A-Max and was done, all had the same measurement. I'd be interested in hearing what worked to correct it if you figure it out. I wish I could be more help to you. You can only do so much by changing the tension on it though. Sounds like a Stoney Point gage is the only way if they insist on sticking. Let me know, I've got an extra SP gage, the bent style for my old M14 you can have. I never use 'em at all.

Thanks Brent,...I'll be experimenting more with the split cases to determine what may be the "sure fire method" of getting mine to be perfect. Like I said,..many of them work without a doubt,..just some are a little funny.

I just barely bump a fired case in the die so the bullet will be held straight and a little taught when you chamber it in the rifle. When it comes out I take a comparitor reading and and put the measurement on a 3x5x index card and I also make a dummy round that is tigher to help set my redding benchrest die. For that particular bullet and case.

I made my own tools and spent the cash on bullets, and powder
For the O.A.L. gauge.
I took a piece of 1/4" brake tubing [outside diameter] and threaded the end with 7MM x 1.0 threads. You could use any size I suppose but that combo worked very well for me.
On the other end of the tube, I drilled a hole and welded a small nut and bolt over it for a thumb screw.
Insert a piece of welding rod and your done with this piece.

For the comparator I took a 1/2 inch bolt about 2 or 3 inches long and cut off the threads. So all I had left was the head and about a 1/2 inch of shank.
I drilled a hole in the head with a drill press to make it caliber specific. IMPORTANT drill this hole offset from center half as much as your tube diameter PLUS 1/2 the thickness of your calipers. This hole was .188" offset with my tube and calipers. [.25" tubing plus .125" calipers divided in half] It makes measuring possible, without the offset you can't get an accurate reading because its on an angle. Picture the caliper at the base of the brass with the tube it in, it is way off center.
IIRC my .224 bullet comparator hole is around .208" As long as its close to caliber minus both land heights it should be fine, .015 - .020 should be ideal.
Put it in the drill press and clean off the stamping on the head and sharpen/debur the hole too.

Next I made the comparator holder.
I took a piece of 1" bar stock by about 1" long and made a slit in it for my calipers. This piece should be as true as you can get it but don't spend hours on it or anything.
I drilled and tapped a hole perpendicular to the slit, again for a thumbscrew, to fasten it to the calipers.
I drilled a 1/2" hole in this holder for the comparator.

For the specialized cases.
I drilled and tapped the brass with the 7MM x 1.0 die to match the tube.
Don't forget to deburr the base.
To get the neck to hold a bullet I neck sized it and then placed a piece of plastic bag over the neck and seated in a bullet.
I repeated this until the neck expanded just the right amount to barely hold the bullet. About 4 times the last time I made one.

So,
1 1/4" brake tube about 12" long... borrowed from work
1 welding rod about 18"long... borrowed from work
2 small bolts about 1/8"... borrowed from work
1 small nut... borrowed from work
1 1/2" bolt per comparator... borrowed from work
1 piece of bar stock... borrowed from work
Three tools I made that actually work well... not going to be seen at work

I'm no toolmaker or machinist but this only took about two hours of screwing around to make all this with two comaprators including making the comparators offset the second time because it didn't work good enough the first time. It actually took longer to write this post.

JustC,
I finally ran into a problem with the split neck method, but here's the deal: The chamber in my 30-338 Lapua Imp has a .3085" throat, and these 240gr SMK bullets measured .3085" and wouldn't fall through the ball mics anvil on their own weight with it set at .3085". The first one I tried it left it in the throat, and when I pushed it out with a cleaning rod it had scuff marks on the bearing surface.

It wasn't scuffing them all too much but enough it kept them from coming out with the case while opening the bolt. The second time I opened the bolt it came out and the measurement was 3.694". I checked to see if it pullet the bullet any that I could not see. The method I used to check it is kind of obvious, but I hadn't thought about it until I wondered how I was going to get the case and bullet back out without screwing up the number. I simply inserted the bullet into the case seated long, as usual, and pushed it all the way up into the chamber against the shoulder hard with my "finger". Now I used a cleaning rod to push the bullet out, "and" the case with it. The case has no resistance on it so the bullet seating depth never changed when pushing on the bullet nose to remove it... worked slick there and might help you on the VLD's if they're still giving you problems. I got 3.694" 3 times in a row and called it perfect, never changed by a half thou once. If I have any problems in the future, this is the answer to them for sure. If your case fits the chamber "too" tight, it might push the bullet into the case farther, but you can check that with it empty before hand using a cleaning rod also. I never had that problem tho, but I use once fired brass just P-FL sized, or neck sized for the split neck gauges so I doubt I ever will.

Good luck.

Thanks Brent. I ran into the problem where the bullet was so tight in the rifling that when I had to "smack" it out with the rod,..the tip on the a-max was destroyed. I don't get it as it has worked so well for all other guns. I am going to try the sinclair tool against my cases/guns that I know it has worked perfectly in and see what developes. I am betting the tool will take second palce to the split case,..especialy once I get the cases set just right. I have begun to spin the cases in my K&M holder on a drill with some steel (000) wool on an oversized bore brush. That seems to free up some resistance in the neck and the sizing seems to bring them to a better point. The fireforming I do with these ackley calibers with a bullet about .005-006" into the rifling makes them a super tight fit to my chamber. they don't feed hard,..but I am betting the formed case provides some more resistance which leads to invcreased rearward pressure on the bullet as it is pusjed against the rifling and the case hasn't yet begun to move rearward,..which in turn yields "bullet stick" that gives the varying measurements. Looks as though we may have stumbled upon our own "scientific evidence" and subsequent fix for the split case in certain situations. Ya gotta love this hobby of ours

I insert and hold a bullet at the lands and measure the remaining barrel length with a wood dowel.I also measure the barrel length to the face of the bolt.These readings give me a +/- col. I then load a dummy round slightly long and do the seat and try method till I no longer contact the lands.This method is tedious but carefully done can be quite accurate.What I really need to do now is figure how to measure to the ogive ( for my barrel ) to avoid this greif each time I change bullets.

JustC,

I am a split neck user as well, and also occasionally get a bullet stuck. You can also try to put a little imperial die sizing wax or moly on the bullet about where it would touch the lands. Be careful not to get it on the case neck or bullet shank.

I always polish the neck on my split cases in order to get out the burrs left by my dull hacksaw blade.

Steve

I do use the Stoney gauge.Initially found variance in masurements.Thought it would be due to variable pressure on the bullet== how deep into the rifling do you set the bullet.
Also bullet diameters vary,some too loose,meaning they fall out.
Finally I came up with a satisfactory method: seat the bullet as hard as you can using the Stoney gauge,then advance the inside rod of the gauge till it butts the bullet from inside the catridge.Now push the whole unit: bullet and gauge out with a wooden dowel rod from the rifles muzzle down.
You can now set the bullet against the inside gauge rod and have a reproducible measurement.
it works and is faster than candling each new bullet in a new caliber

sheephunter

I use a similar, homemade device.

I take a once fired case with the primer removed.
I cut a piece of stiff wire from the bottom (long) section of a clothes hanger.
(I find that this size wire is stroung enough, and fits through the primer flash hole)

I take the type of bullet I will be shooting, and load it into the neck of the once fired case, and slide the case and bullet into the chamber, forcing the case in tightly with my finger or wooden dowel (with the bolt removed from the action).

Now I slide the wire in through the flash hole, and push the bullet forward into the lands.

I slide a piece of tape on the wire up to the face of the case, and then carefully remove the wire.

I then remove the case and bullet by sliding a cleaning rod down from the muzzle.

By putting the wire back into the case and seating the bullet to that depth, I get the point where it just engages the rifling.

I do the measurements twice just to be sure, and then seat the bullet in my charged cases .002 inch deeper (shorter).

I know it sounds like a lot of trouble, but it only takes about 5 minutes total, and you can do it over with any new type of bullets you are shooting.

Garrett