Hey guys,

I would really appreciate the advice of more experienced reloaders on this one. I haven't reloaded 45 acp before, and any reloads would be for my brand new Colt 1911. I bought some cases for next to nothing and after cleaning them up and getting a good look at them I'm not sure if I should even bother with them. They have a bulge near the base of the case and some have a ridge from something. These reportedly came from an estate sale and appear to me to be someone's pile of reloading brass. They are mostly all old military and commercial head stamps from the 40's to maybe the early 70's. Anyhow, I was considering getting the Lee bulge buster and running these through it to "repair" them. My 1st thought after that was using them for light plinking loads with cast 230gr RN bullets, my second thought was throwing them all in the scrap bucket and consider it a lesson learned not to buy a pile of dirty old brass no matter how cheap it is.

So here are the pictures, the top case is the most indicative of the majority of cases, some are more pronounced than others.










I hope the pictures are clear enough. Should I bulge bust/resize and load these or scrap them?

Not knowing their history I would pitch and start over.

Your cases were over resized with a carbide die, meaning sized too far down the case and this is the "step" you see just above the extractor groove.

The bulge you see is caused by a large diameter chamber. Your biggest worry is the over resizing and the "step" making the brass weak at this point.

I would trash the cases with the more pronounced "step" and use the other cases for light practice loads. I would also trim all these cases to the recommended trim length.

Next I would buy new brass to use as a base line for your "warmer" reloads.

Shoot them.

+1

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Shoot them.

+1

Shoot them. Chuck them when the split.

I bought about 300 polished mixed headstamp .45 ACP back in the mid '80s. Most were plated RP. I oversized them badly each time - overbelled the necks, too - and they commenced looking like muffins. I ran the batch out to their demise through a Colt CC (not match chamber). Used 230 gr Carroll RN ahead of enough Red Dot and Green Dot to make an 18# spring work. I was getting about 825 fps.

After awhile I was more curious than anything else. By the time I reached 100 loadings 125 remained. Longitudinal side and neck splits was the only cause of death I ever saw. Even the primer pockets stayed tight. Also, for the record, I never trimmed them. Never.

.45 ACP is a low pressure round, like .38 Sp. I would not take this approach with 9mm, 40, or .357.

your decision, your money, your equipment, your body,

There is no risk to any of those items mentioned; but if you just don't want to use them, send to me and I most certainly will.

My results agree with Samuel H


I would give them a run. I'm not telling you to do so, but I would.

Paul: you're right. I would be sick if somehow one of these cases damaged my gun. I don't know how much this brass has been work hardened. I've been reading how others have loaded .45 cases so many times they "can't read the headstamps". I guess I'm questioning my own initial feelings on these. They may very well be safe to resize and reload, but I'm not using my gun to find out. If I had a cheapo 1911 that might be another story. Thanks everyone for your thoughts and opinions. I think I will order some new Starline cases instead of fooling with these.

dpcd: If you're serious, they're yours.

shoot them.
you taper crimp them to 470 .008 size-down is nothing.
the round runs less pressure than the 22 lr.
if you don't want them i'll take them.

There is nothing wrong with them, at all. I know you are new, and are timid about loading, and getting yourself or your pistol hurt; not a totally bad thing I guess.
I actually do not need them, having thousands of them, many much worse than yours. Send them to Lamar; he needs them more than I.

They're probably fine. Do they fit the chamber of the gun? They do not look like they were fired in an unsupported chamber. You can probably find pictures of this condition. Worst case you may need a die that will size further down, or a push through die. You pictures show a bulge pretty far from the head though.

Its possible to "neck size" 45 acp brass. Stop anywhere below the bullets base. Just make sure the rounds will feed and chamber. The thickness of a nickel coin between the sizer and shell holder work for me, when setting up the die. RCBS dies.

Question. For those of you that say the ridge is from a carbide sizing die and over resizing. If so how in the heck do you still have the bulge?

Or are you saying that the brass was resized. THEN fired in an oversized chamber?? OK maybe my old mind can grasp that.

At .10 for quality once fired or .18 for new why in the world jack with it?

Over sizing straight wall cases

Now that is brand new to me

Shoot them....the 45ACP is a low pressure round for Pete's sake

This > throwing them all in the scrap bucket and consider it a lesson learned not to buy a pile of dirty old brass no matter how cheap it is.

I looked over past .45 ACP component buys; pretty easy b/c of bulk purchases. Over decades have purchased and loaded about 5000 bulk TZZ and WCC stamped .45ACP empties on my 1050. Add to that about 2000 mixed commercial "once" (?) fired and probably another 500 or so rounds of someone else's (someone I knew well) reloaded .45 ACP that I fired then reloaded with the rest. Plus maybe 500 rds lifetime in factory loads I shot up personally in my guns. Plus about 1000 rds (crude est) range scrounges (yes, indeed).

Except for the batch mentioned above I do not keep track of how many times they've been loaded. Don't sort cases. Do clean in a tumbler since about 1995. Don't clean primer pockets but maybe every 20 reloads. Maybe. Most off the 1050, but about 10% off a single stage with RCBS dies.

Most was/is 5 gr 231 behind a 230 gr cast. Some 4.3 gr behind 200 gr SWC for the NM.

Guns: 10 different 1911s, a Smith 745, a G-21 and some full auto subguns.

Have seen nothing remotely disconcerting in the way of case failure. Just what results from work hardening at the neck and upper sides. I treat .38 Spl about the same, and get the same results. .38s don't last as long, IME, but its always death by crimp or side split. Always, as in no exceptions.

Now, I load about 20 different rifle and pistol rounds operating at higher pressures. Do not treat any the same as .38 and .45ACP. Ie., don't use .300 Roy range scrounges.

I believe in experience, but am not afraid to learn something at 61. So instead of just "yes" and "no", let's learn something. To the naysayers, let's hear your stories of case rupture or head failure with normal pressure .45 ACP reloads. At least some rationale vs "don't" or "I wouldn't".

No acrimony, no flames, just exchange of information, pls.

Photo from http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=506938 When test firing a used 1911A1 that had "ramp work" done, the brass bulged in the area when this one blow. 45 acp brass last till you loose it. Buy new Starline and be safe.

quote:

Originally posted by Samuel_Hoggson:
I looked over past .45 ACP component buys; pretty easy b/c of bulk purchases. Over decades have purchased and loaded about 5000 bulk TZZ and WCC stamped .45ACP empties on my 1050. Add to that about 2000 mixed commercial "once" (?) fired and probably another 500 or so rounds of someone else's (someone I knew well) reloaded .45 ACP that I fired then reloaded with the rest. Plus maybe 500 rds lifetime in factory loads I shot up personally in my guns. Plus about 1000 rds (crude est) range scrounges (yes, indeed).

Except for the batch mentioned above I do not keep track of how many times they've been loaded. Don't sort cases. Do clean in a tumbler since about 1995. Don't clean primer pockets but maybe every 20 reloads. Maybe. Most off the 1050, but about 10% off a single stage with RCBS dies.

Most was/is 5 gr 231 behind a 230 gr cast. Some 4.3 gr behind 200 gr SWC for the NM.

Guns: 10 different 1911s, a Smith 745, a G-21 and some full auto subguns.

Have seen nothing remotely disconcerting in the way of case failure. Just what results from work hardening at the neck and upper sides. I treat .38 Spl about the same, and get the same results. .38s don't last as long, IME, but its always death by crimp or side split. Always, as in no exceptions.

Now, I load about 20 different rifle and pistol rounds operating at higher pressures. Do not treat any the same as .38 and .45ACP. Ie., don't use .300 Roy range scrounges.

I believe in experience, but am not afraid to learn something at 61. So instead of just "yes" and "no", let's learn something. To the naysayers, let's hear your stories of case rupture or head failure with normal pressure .45 ACP reloads. At least some rationale vs "don't" or "I wouldn't".

No acrimony, no flames, just exchange of information, pls.

I'm about the same age as you, started rolling my own in the 1960s and have loaded many thousands of 45 ACP rounds. My experiences/results mirror yours.

In the 1970s I lived south of Houston and frequented a small country range that didn't care if you scrounged brass. I picked up a lot of 45 brass, never had any problems. Cleaned it, took care of the primer pocket on the milsurp, loaded it, shot it, rinse and repeat.

quote:

Originally posted by 243winxb:
When test firing a used 1911A1 that had "ramp work" done, the brass bulged in the area when this one blow. 45 acp brass last till you loose it. Buy new Starline and be safe.

The sentences do not necessarily connect. The pic does show one can blow a .45 case head at high-pressure due to projo telescoping, all thanks to "ramp work". Same exact pic could also have resulted from very excessive expander plug diameter in an otherwise perfect 1911. In either situation the "culprit" is not brass: whether scrounged, once-bulged, brand other than Starline, etc.

If someone decides to toss even once-fired Starline .45 ACP brass that's fine. I do understand the concept of risk-stacking. Eg., too-large expander, very old brass, shady gunsmith work, etc., etc. This is why I have not/will not argue against being more cautious than really necessary. That goes in spades if one is relatively inexperienced.

But if I had Xseabee's brass I'd clean, then toss in the casefeed hopper.

Well, nowadays I check for those confounded small pistol primers.........

Well, the post I was replying too disappeared...but in any event it made me think about taking a chance with a brand new pistol and why would I bother with questionable brass when decent once fired abd new brass is both plentiful and cheap enough. After thinking about it I agree. Am I being overly cautious? Maybe. Am I being too "timid" as a reloader? Maybe. Am I just a ridiculous newbie asking stupid questions? Maybe, but I'd rather be safe than sorry, especially since my wife shoots with me.

I didn't ask these questions completely uneducated. I read quite a bit about other reloaders experiences loading .45 acp and I did get the impression that you could almost load them until the cases fall apart. I also read and watched you tube videos where people used either a Lee bulge buster or Redding GRX die to fix bulged cases. However, Lee's bulge buster die instructions seem to contradict themselves because the dies whole purpose is to squeeze the bulge out of the case, yet there is a disclaimer to not fix bulged cases and shoot them in guns with an unsupported chamber again because the brass is thinned in that area and could rupture the next time it's fired. So, same as here, I've found answers that fall on both side of the fence.

Just out of curiousity I've run some of these through a bulge buster and on the worst examples it removed about 98% of the deformity in the case, leaving just a small amount of the scallop right at the base. In doing so I found a split case, so for all I know this whole lot of brass could have been already reloaded until it's ready to split. That the last confirmation I need. Too timid? Oh well, I'll be too timid. My gun with still be in one piece and neither my wife or I will be injured. A $38 crap shoot on brass from a shady Gun Broker.com seller isn't worth the risk.

Thank you for teaching me about the .45 acp in terms of it's low pressure and relatively long reloading life. I appreciate the education as well as everyone's opinion on the subject.

I asked a question here a while back about case life and some people said they never got to the end. Low pressure cartridge. Okay.

The bulge I see looks like a regular sizer will straighten it out. How do they look after you run them through a die? I'd size them and if they look okay, use them.

If your barrel hasn't been screwed up by an ameteur ramp and throat job and your loads are normal pressure, I don't see anything wrong.

Here's a pic of three barrels, left to right, unmodified 1943 Remington Rand, early 90's series 80 with a ramp and throat job done and a Gold Cup National Match I bought three months ago, untouched of course. They all look properly supported to me and I've never seen any unusual bulges in my fired cases.

I have seen photos of +P+ loads fired in early Glocks, which were notorious for not suppoerting the case head, which gave bulges, but in my 1911s with middle of the road loadings, I shot them until the headstamps were hard to read, and until a lot of the nickel was worn off nickel cases.

I'd lose a few and have to throw a couple with neck splits away every week, but nothing like that.

Did you clean them or were they just like the pictures?

It's possible that the dead reloader may have had a "Scrap Brass" or "Sort Through When There's Time" bucket under the bench and the estate sold it not knowing the dead fellow's intentions. Now my scrap bucket has an assortment of brass and my sort throughs are 3# plastic coffee cans. I usually mark them with a card inside deprimed/not sized, "New" fired 1x, Cast loads - 4x, etc. The old fellow up the road shoots a lot and has only loaded .45ACP for the last century or two, that's it. Single stage too! His scrap bucket has been there filling a few years now.

I'd size and then sort them again.

As Bren said, Glock had problems with unsupported chambers, wasn't always a +P problem. In a 1911, any good chamber will support the brass. 243's picture is a bad ramp job, not a brass problem. The GB KABOOM thread referenced has a lot of poster admitted ammo problems on it.

The brass in question, I have enough brass I'd probably toss it. Would it reload, probably.

All the pictures from Joe of SO Cal show barrels with "unsupported chambers"! I have never seen a 45acp with a "supported chamber", but have several 38 Supers and a couple of 9x21's with 'supported chambers". I put the term in quotes as the other way of referring to the same thing is "ramped barrel" ie. the feed ramp is integral with the barrel and not part of the frame. the frame has to be cut away to make room for the barrel ramp, and, the take down procedure is different as the barrel must be removed from the rear of the slide as opposed to pushing it through the bushing.
Having said that, I don't see a need for a ramped barrel in 45acp. the 38 Supers needed a ramped barrel to make major using the old IPSC standards (175 as I recollect). I have been reloading 45 acp since the '80s and do not remember ever throwing away a case! I do shoot Bullseye pistol however so these are not max loads.
Just my 2 cents.
Peter

FWIW, the base diameter of the "oversized" brass is .001" smaller than minimum SAAMI chamber at the same point. AND, SAAMI allows a PLUS .004" diameteral tolerance.

Reload and shoot until they split.

Dave Manson

quote:

Originally posted by DManson:
FWIW, the base diameter of the "oversized" brass is .001" smaller than minimum SAAMI chamber at the same point. AND, SAAMI allows a PLUS .004" diameteral tolerance.

This is an astute observation, Dave.

The case head area (and what Ken Waters termed the "pressure ring") is what concerns us. None of Xseabee's case heads appear even slightly stressed by firing - depth of previous sizing notwithstanding.

Conversely, note no evidence of brass "oversizing" in the 243winxb pic..........yet that didn't end well.

Minkman makes a good point, too. That is the real problem with buying what looks like "once fired" brass. So maybe we are looking at "dead" brass. Even so, risk of KB in a normal pressure/normal headspace situation is zero.

Back in 89 I bought a box of name brand 230 grain FMJ to shoot in my new S&W 625. After getting back home I found 8 that had split during firing. The splits went from the mouth back down to the base. They were pretty dramatic, never seen anything like it before or since. The funny thing is, I had no idea when I'd fired them. There was no flash, no kabooms, no indications at all that something wasn't right. From my experiences, I'd reload those cases and keep an eye on them. If the case mouths split, then I'd discard them. Your decisions are your own. Whatever you decide will be the correct choice for you. Besides, if you toss them in the trash it isn't like throwing away gold bars.