Do you think it is advantageous from a handloading perspective to build a 6mm Remington on a standard length (30-06 length) bolt action instead of buying a factory short action (.308 Winchester length) bolt rifle chambered in 6mm Remington? Do you gain any reloading potential with the longer cartridge overall length possibilities by using the longer standard length action?

The rifle is intended for range shooting, varmint/predator hunting and occasional deer stand use.

Thank you.

Buliwyf

I have one in a Remington 700 on the short length Remington 700 action, and I've never felt hampered by that short action.

I've always used an 06 length action on the 6mm, 257 roberts, 7x57. It allows me to seat the bullet out increase my net capacity. The 7x57, 8x57 mausers were mostly on what we would call an 06 length action.

I ran a test in Loadtech. First at the 2.825" and then at max OAL for the 100gr nosler. Velocity projected increased from 3205 to 3395fps.(seems a little optomistic) The longer length allows about 5grs more powder or around a 9.5% increase. The longer action also allows you to adjust the OAL for your bullet and throat.

The benefit would be less as the bullets get lighter since they take up less case capacity.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:
I've always used an 06 length action on the 6mm, 257 roberts, 7x57. It allows me to seat the bullet out increase my net capacity. The 7x57, 8x57 mausers were mostly on what we would call an 06 length action.

I ran a test in Loadtech. First at the 2.825" and then at max OAL for the 100gr nosler.

Velocity projected increased from 3205 to 3395fps.(seems a little optomistic) The longer length allows about 5grs more powder or around a 9.5% increase. The longer action also allows you to adjust the OAL for your bullet and throat.

The benefit would be less as the bullets get lighter since they take up less case capacity.

roger

I built mine, I tested both the short action and the long action...

For varmint shooting use, and bullet weights at 70 grains and under, I'd recommend the short action...

For bullets of 75 grain HPs, and longer, I'd go with the long action...

If one wanted a 6mm Rem on a short action... then I'd just recommend the 243... as the two are interchangable, and the shorter length of the 243 in a short action is less hassle in my book...

however, in a long action... not much of the bullet resides within the case.. and the farther out you seat it, until it touches the lands.. the less your pressure is going to be.... also allowing you to put more powder in it..

In my 6mm Rem, on a Model 700 long action, I have a one in 7 twist.. ( or maybe it is one in 8, I forget which)( I forget a lot of things any more.. old timers disease).......but I use it for 75 grain Hornady HPs to 115 grain Berger match bullets...

bullets lighter than that get loaded in a short action 243...

Loads in the long action 6mm Rem rival those in a 240 Weatherby's factory load velocities easily...

of course a Weatherby owner will argue that...but it will be his ego talking , not his experiences with the 6mm Remington..

specifically which action are we talking about?...Remington 700?...win M-70?.....Mauser '98? Other?

My 6m Rem is on a VZ-24 and it should be considered a long action even though the original chambering is the 8 X 57.....same case as the 6mm Rem...

I'd not try to chamber one to a Win M-70 short action however.

quote:

Loads in the long action 6mm Rem rival those in a 240 Weatherby's factory load velocities easily...

I agree 100% I have a 6mm 24" set up on a MKX action. Using 100gr PT at max OAL with a full case of Norma MRP I get a measured 3375FPS and cases last until the necks give out. Wby calls factory 240Wby 100 at 3405FPS. Had a shooting buddy who had one on the same chrono his measured 3350.

For varminting the short action is fully adequate (assumes bullets mostly 75 grains and under). Besides, for most varminting there's no disadvantage in using it as a single shot, so there is no real restriction on making the cartridge as long as you wish.

For game, the short action is a tad crowded with 90 and 100 grain bullets, especially the longer ones like Ballistic Tips, Partitions, and the mono-metals popular with some folks. My Sako L579 is crowded but does just fine with game-weight bullets. I wouldn't trade its advantageous length and weight for a marginal increase in performance you would gain from a long action. Hell, if you're going to use a long action, why not just go ahead and do a 6mm/06 to begin with? No need restricting yourself to the 57mm case.

Note: The Remington 100 grain factory load does a little over 3100 fps out of my 24" barrel, and it is loaded to an LOA to fit the shortest action in which the caliber is chambered. If you can get this velocity out of a factory load, I don't see too much advantage in a longer LOA.

quote:

Hell, if you're going to use a long action, why not just go ahead and do a 6mm/06 to begin with? No need restricting yourself to the 57mm case.

Problem when you jump to the 06 case or larger you are just burning more powder to get back to the same point. The 240Wby is basically a 6-06 with a radius shoulder. I built my own 6mm-280IMP basically a 240Gibbs. I found I just burned a lot more powder to gain less than 100fps. Pulled the barrel and used th action for another project and kept shooting my 6mm.

Another thing to consider is not just the bullet depth in the case neck, but more importantly, the bullet ogive in relationship to the lands. Of course this depends on the throat as well as the basic action length.

In a long action, you may be "reaching" for the lands (in an attempt at a more accurate load), and find that you can't get there without having the bullet falling out of the case neck.

I know some guys will give up practically everything else to get one more grain of powder in a case for that absolute top velocity (I'm always amused at the "chrono contests" that guys seem to wage), but myself, I'll give up a little velocity if need be in exchange for accuracy. Especially in a rifle chambered in a caliber like this, that will be used primarily for smaller stuff, often at extended ranges, and many times single loaded anyway.

My 6mm Rem is on a short action.

I swapped a factory .22-250 Rem barrel off my
Savage 16FSS, for a magnum contour barrel
chambered in 6mm Rem. I set my dies back
as far as was reasonable, and used that
case to headspace the barrel. With this
setup, and the relatively long blind box
mag. on the Savage, I can reach the lands
with 65 gr. bullets, and fit 100 gr. loads,
that are just .01" off the lands, in the
blind mag. Seafire recommended a long action,
for this project, but I finally gave up the
search for a cheap donor action, and put it
on my Model 16(short action). At this point,
I am getting everything I wanted out of this
project, and have fallen head over heels for
the 6mm Rem. as a long range varmint round.

The 100 gr. loads were tested, and cataloged,
but I doubt it will ever see action as a
deer rifle. I have a beautiful Tikka M695,
stainless/laminate, in .25-06 Rem. that will
always be the first bolt gun I reach for,
when deer sized game is the quest. But for
groundhogs, skunks, raccoons, and coyotes,
this 6mm Rem. RULES!

Squeeze

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Bore:
Another thing to consider is not just the bullet depth in the case neck, but more importantly, the bullet ogive in relationship to the lands. Of course this depends on the throat as well as the basic action length.

In a long action, you may be "reaching" for the lands (in an attempt at a more accurate load), and find that you can't get there without having the bullet falling out of the case neck.

I know some guys will give up practically everything else to get one more grain of powder in a case for that absolute top velocity (I'm always amused at the "chrono contests" that guys seem to wage), but myself, I'll give up a little velocity if need be in exchange for accuracy. Especially in a rifle chambered in a caliber like this, that will be used primarily for smaller stuff, often at extended ranges, and many times single loaded anyway.

My 6mm Rem is on a short action.

cold bore, you bring up an interesting point about some of the shorter bullets, reaching for the lands...

When I had my 6mm Rem ( I have built 3 now, one for a friends son, for a high school graduation present when he was going into the Army, one on the Remington 700 and one on a Mauser action)....for each rifle, I loaded up dummy rounds that were magazine length and took them to the gunsmith... these were done with a 75 grain HP Hornady, a 95 grain ballistic tip and a 105 grain AMAX.... and told him to have the chambered reamed to "fit these".....

When I ever have a rifle rebarreled, I do exactly that...make up dummy rounds and have the chamber set up to fit them... all magazine length...

In the two Ruger 260s that I have also... both were taken to the gunsmith with dummy rounds for the 140 grain Sierra and the 160 Grain Hornady RN seated to magazine length... and I had the chambers reamed out to fit those two bullets...

This is personal basic common sense to me.. although I don't knock a guy who doesn't take this step.. but this set sure has its advantages

but I think most guys who handload know to have the bullet seated deep enough 'not to fall out'...

quote:

Originally posted by seafire/B17G:
but I think most guys who handload know to have the bullet seated deep enough 'not to fall out'...

Agreed, and I hope that my post wasn't interpreted that way.

What I meant was that even if one knows what he's doing reloadingwise, he may still have trouble seating the bullets to where he "wants" them, rather than where they "need" to be to keep enough in the neck, if he builds on a long action and takes a "generic" chamber that might be throated long.

After reading Seafire's experience with the 6mm on a long action, I built one on a Savage M110 action with a 26" heavy barrel. Haven't even really gotten started on the load workups (hey, it's deer season!!!) but it is shooting 100 gr Hornady spire points right at a half-inch. Didn't like the 87 gr ones, but maybe with a different powder.

Going to make a lot of feral hogs and coyotes DRT.

Dustoffer,

I tested 15 different powders in my Rem 700 LA and if what you were using didn't work...

May I suggest, testing some H 414, the IMR 4350, Varget, H 4350 and IMR 4064, RL 15 in that order...