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308 Win & I4350 50 grns?
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Picture of Mike_Dettorre
posted
Does anybody actualy load this or slightly more...Nosler's current and old Hornady Manuals show this as an acceptable load with 180 grn bullets...and most other manuals show this as too hot for a 165 grn bullet...

Any real world experience with this combination
with this chrge weight and either 165 or 180s?

Please JATFQ as opposed to your favorite load.


Mike

Legistine actu quod scripsi?

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.




What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10181 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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Not sure why you would want to use this powder (I4350) in the 308 Win case, but I suggest you don't waste your time with this slow of a powder. Try Win 748, IMR 3031 ir 4064, BLC-2 or Varget. I get 2670 fps out of my 308 Win Ruger 77RL using 46.5 gr W748 with 180 gr bullets with good accuracy.
 
Posts: 18 | Location: W. MI | Registered: 05 January 2006Reply With Quote
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Picture of Mike_Dettorre
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Because it is my favorite powder, I have a lot of it is historically accurate in everyhting I have shot it in and provides excellent velocities with heavy for caliber bullets...

but other than that no reason jumping


Mike

Legistine actu quod scripsi?

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.




What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10181 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
new member
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Good enough for me.
I have not had much luck with that slow a burner in the 308 case. I would like to know what you come up with using I4350 with the 180s. Without checking, I would think you are going to have a highly compressed load with the longer bullets stuffed in on top of 50 grains of powder.
I use I4350 in 30-06 and similar cases with a lot of success.
 
Posts: 18 | Location: W. MI | Registered: 05 January 2006Reply With Quote
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I used 50 gr. of IMR 4350 with hornady 180 grain rn bulllets for years in my 308. It gets 2500 fps out my rem 660s 20 inch barrel with cci 250 primers. Accuracy is not too bad--averaging around 1.25"

The load is compressed and I've since gone to either varget or IMR 4064. Varget gets a bit higher velocity (not enough to matter) and slightly better groups. I found that loading was slower and a bit more tedious, but it may be worth a try in your gun.

edit: just wanted to add that the only cases that I used with IMR-4350 were winchester, since I couldn't get 50 gr. into remington brass that I used. Even then I tapped the cases as I SLOWLY poured the powder in. The powder comes about half way up the neck if done that way, then the bullet compresses the powder in from there. I always seated the bullets slowly to avoid too much crunch, and crimped the bullets in.

Never did notice more fire ball than with any other powders though...
 
Posts: 33 | Registered: 02 June 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by remington660:
I used 50 gr. of IMR 4350 with hornady 180 grain rn bulllets for years in my 308. It gets 2500 fps out my rem 660s 20 inch barrel with cci 250 primers. Accuracy is not too bad--averaging around 1.25"


Wow look at that fireball! I shot several of those Mohawks 308's with short barrels muzzle flash was always a problem even with powders much faster than 4350.
 
Posts: 1679 | Location: Renton, WA. | Registered: 16 December 2005Reply With Quote
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I have been using a 308 as a target rifle for well over ten years now. I have shot the thing at long range matches, out to 1000 yards. Of course I asked people what to use, and I received recommended loads. One Palma Shooter told me he had success with 185 Bergers and 47.0 grs IMR 4350. I conducted some tests of 190 Sierra’s and AA4350 and H4350. With the brass I was using, 47 grains of 4350 just about filled the case. In fact, after seating the bullet to depth, I could see the bullet rising out of the case. The powder had been compressed so much, that it expanded back and pushed the bullet up the case neck. Of course the bullets did not fall out of the case, they stopped when the expansion stopped.

I was not able to get enough H4350 to get meaning ful velocities. My lot of AA4350 is identical, charge weight for velocity, as IMR 4350.

I shot this load out to 1000 yards, and it shot well. Group sizes are at 100 yards.

308 Winchester, M70 26" Kreiger Barrel, four groove, 1:10 twist

190 gr Speer Match 47.0 grs AA4350 wt'd R-P cases Fed 210S 30 April 97 T=72F
Group Size 0.95* 0.80
Ave Vel = 2596
Std Dev = 16
ES 49
Low 2569
High 2618
N = 10

190 gr Speer Match 45.0 grs H4350 wt'd R-P cases Fed 210S 9 Mar 97 T=70F
Group Size 0.4"*1.0

Ave Vel = 2301
Std Dev = 22 "
ES 65
Low 2272
High 2337
N = 5

190 gr Speer Match 46.0 grs H4350 wt'd R-P cases Fed 210S 9 Mar 97 T=70F
Group Size 0.73"*0.83"
Ave Vel = 2382
Std Dev = 14
ES 36
Low 2365
High 2401
N = 6

190 gr Speer Match 47.5 grs H4350 wt'd R-P cases Fed 210S 30 April 97 T=72F
Group Size 0.81 * 1.10
Ave Vel = 2414
Std Dev = 8
ES 23
Low 2402
High 2425
N = 9
 
Posts: 1233 | Registered: 10 October 2005Reply With Quote
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Mike:
I hope you are not using this slow of a powder in a semi automatic.

muck
 
Posts: 1052 | Location: Southern OHIO USA | Registered: 17 November 2001Reply With Quote
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