Has anybody had any problems with the length of Nosler's .223 brass? I went to trim it tonight and thought my calipers were broke. After checking to verify that the measurement was correct, they all measured 1.735" instead of 1.760". I personally think if they did this on purpose that this is excessively short on an already short neck. The shoulders of the cases are correct, it is just the length of the neck.

Well look on the bright side... YOu won't have to trim the Nosler brass as often then as brass from other manufacturers....

That is short, even though you should probably compare to 1.750", which is the SAAMI "trim to" length (.1760" is the SAAMI max length).

I used to trim my .223 cases below 1.750 because I HATE trimming. I have stopped doing that, though. The .223 neck is pretty short as it is, and I found I had problems getting sensible and consistent neck tension with the (even) shorter neck. What is more, I like to be able to leave just a tad of the neck unsized to center the necks in the chamber. That leaves even less neck to hold the bullets.

If Nosler really decided on this length on purpose, it sounds like a decision based on a single issue. Sadly, reloading is more complicated than that.

If you have any way of controlling your neck tension (e.g you use a bushing die), and if you have problems with the short necks, try a smaller bushing to at least increase the neck tension on whatever neck is available.

Better still, consider buying Lapua brass. Lapua has just come out with a new "version" of their .223 brass. It should take up the internal capacity of the Lapua brass to levels comparable to Win. I doubt if the Lapua brass will be a lot more expensive than the Nosler stuff...

- mike

Nosler has built up this stuff as being of extra high quality. I doubt they want any case slipping through their QC. I would let them know of any concerns with it I found and see what they say. The least you`ll know why if they do trim to this short of lenght.

I just compared prices on the Sinclair website. The Nosler brass is considerably more expensive than the Lapua. Boy, the Nosler brass sure has to be good stuff to compete in that league!

(I only compared .223 Rem brass).

- mike

mho, Sinclair prices must be excessively high. The wholesale price I get it for is $18 for 50 pcs. The length may be the reason it is so cheap. I just re-checked, and the price is the same. Sounds like they are really marking the price up from their cost.

It does appear so far to be nice brass. The neck wall thickness is .011" and only varies a couple of tenths. So, no need for neck turning, but I still needed to debur the flash hole and uniform the primer pockets. The flash hole is on center, unlike the Win stuff. And I haven't checked the case capacity yet.

I hadn't seen that Lapua came out with a new version. That means I won't have to spend hours in front on the TV turning necks, trimming, deburing flasholes and uniforming them, uniforming primer pockets, sorting, annealing, weighing, etc. to get the velocity I can with the Win Brass. Unfortunately, this is what I have to do if I am shooting a 1000yd match. Otherwise the bullet velocity falls below supersonic and my accuracy falls apart.

I usually use Lapua's brass, but I thought this might be a cheaper alternative.

I do the same thing, neck size down only so far so that the case centers itself. The neck length isn't a big issue for 600yd shooting, since I seat my 80gr Berger VLDs into the lands. The deal comes to the 77gr Sierras for the rapid fire. I like the long neck to help keep the bullet true to the case after being ripped out of the clip and stuffed into the chamber. Also I found that, with my rifle, that neck tension is detrimental to maintaining an acceptable extreme spread in my velocities. Something I had a hell of a time with last year and I still haven't perfected it yet.

mho, are you a high power shooter?

Thanks for the info.

I'm curious. Nosler claims the flash holes are already deburred and that is what I found to be the case with the 7mm mag Nosler brass I bought. So your brass didn't come that way?

Delta, nope, a few cases still had burs on the inside. Was the length of your brass to spec?

No high power shooting over here, sadly. But the competition I shoot does have some offhand positions - although I doubt it is as demanding as high power.

So you are well familiar with Lapua brass. Well in that case, I don't need to sing the praise of that brass. It is good, though...

The (old) version of Lapua .223 brass I have weighs around 104-105 grs. The new stuff is supposed to weigh closer to 95 grs - or so I have heard, I have yet to obtain any myself. That is very close to what Win brass weighs.

Sinclair wants $35.10 for 100 pcs of Lapua .223. Bruno's Shooters Supply wants $30 for the same 100 cases, and Midsouth wants $34.58.

The $18 per 50 Nosler brass you get is actually better than what I see elsewhere - around $22-23 per 50.

- mike

Wow! I haven't noticed that Lapua brass has came so far down in price. The last box I bought was $45 for 100, plus shipping. Thanks for the info. I will definately try out the new Lapua brass and let everybody know how well it performs. It is cheaper than the Nosler stuff.

Unless specified, make sure you ask for the new Lapua version. At one time, I think they labelled it "target" or "competition" or some such marketing expression. If you deal with Bruno's or Sinclair, they'll know.

- mike

The brass isn`t some of the 2nd`s Nosler sells at their shooters shop is it?

A artical on Noslers brass in recent Handloader mag claimed all brass is wgt sorted, flash holes deburred, hand inspected for flashole position and straightness, trimmed, and mouths chamfered on their brass.
The Nosler web site offers 2nds at a lower price, with them possibly haveing some wgt variance. You might have been sold the 2nds as "wholesale" brass. The prices on their web site are in line with what you report.

I bought the Nosler 223 Rem seconds as they said the only difference was 'cosmetic.' They measure 1.737" They grew 1 to 2 thousands upon fireforming to AI. Now I'll trim to uniform length.

FYI, the 'new' 223 Rem Lapua cases I measured all averaged 92.9 grains. extreme spread of .4 grains!!!

Norma averaged 92.5 but with wide extreme spread.

Federal GM averaged 95.6

Remington averaged 92 with wide extreme spread

Winchester averaged 93.2 with wide extreme spread

By wide ES I mean greater than 2 grains.

quote:

Originally posted by James_B:
Delta, nope, a few cases still had burs on the inside. Was the length of your brass to spec?

I can't remember the exact length, but it was just a tad longer than trim-to length and well within spec. They were all within .001" of each other. I like it better than the RWS brass it replaced.

onefunzr2, that must be what I got.
That really pisses me off. It wasn't labeled as seconds when I purchased it. I haven't shot it yet, but I am not going to bother with sending it back. It would cost more than it is worth. Williams Shooter Supply is who I purchased the stuff from. This is not the first problem that I have had with them. They also are really slow in shipping things when you place an order. I takes like 3-4 days before it is even shipped. I am going to try to get a hold of them today if they are still open and see whats up with there inability to properly label their products. As a second, you would think that it would have a different product # from the first line stuff. Nothing on the box said it was seconds, or the receipt. You would atleast think that the Nosler box would be marked. I would really be pissed if I had sold it to a customer and they brought it back. That is my ass that is on the line. Thanks for the info. James

I got both 223 rem and 22-250 rem from Shooters Pro Shop, near Bend Oregon, supposedly the only place that sells any Nosler seconds product. They came in 50 round plastic sandwich bags.

James_B,
My "vote" goes to sending the brass back to Nosler. The brass is defective in that it is NOT within factory specs. If the OAL is too short because the brass is "seconds", then they still have a problem in that it was fraudulently NOT labeled as a second. I'm writing this on my office (work) computer and the software won't allow me to access certain sites, like the Nosler Shop, but I'd be curious as to whether the price you paid was for their first line brass or "seconds" brass. Nosler SHOULD pay the return shipping as the product is defective. If they won't do so, I'd put it in a USPS "Priority Envelope" (the post office provides this cardboard envelope, allowing you to ship how ever much of an item you can fit in the envelope, anywhere in the US at flat rate of $4.50!), send it back to them, then order some Lapua brass from someone else. Even if you have to pay the shipping back to OR, the whole transaction shouldn't cost much more than a few extra $ (and you'll be saving some time on the brass preparation you won't have to do w/ Lapua); then you'll have what you're paying for--premium brass.

Nosler is making what it terms "precision brass." (So is Hornady). It's more uniform in weight than most other US made brass and has the primer pockets drilled instead of punched out so there is no internal projection to be reamed.
Remington used to make decent brass, but even it has fallen on bad times quality wise. Since we've become obsessed with the "bottom line" the quality of our reloading components has dropped several pegs. Hats off to Nosler and Hornady for at least trying to give us decent products again. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

At $65.00 for 50 rds here in Alberta, Nosler can stick their precision brass where the sun don't shine.

Chuck

Gary T,

You helped convince me to send them back. I contacted Nosler and the wholesaler by e-mail and have yet to hear back from them. I plan on calling them on Monday and will see what happens.

I have had very good quality brass from Hornady and it wasn't even supposed to be "match" brass. The prices are exceptionally good also.

James_B,
Best of luck w/ your brass! Keep us updated what develops! I would think Nosler would want to make it right w/ you. Gary T.

I received my check in the mail yesterday. Nosler was extremely professional when handling the situation.

When I had contacted them it was on a Saturday. The next Monday morning, I received an e-mail back requesting my address and how much I paid for the brass, along with the option of replacing it or a refund. I choose the refund since I had already ordered some Lapua brass from Brunos.

Nosler sent me a call tag to pick up the brass via UPS, so I didn't have to pay any shipping. Four days after sending the brass off, I received the check in the mail for the full amount.

Nosler has some of the best customer service I have ever encountered. The company stands behind their products 100%. I was very impressed with the way it was handled, considering past experiences of the same type, with others companies in the industry. I wouldn't hesistate trying any of their products with the service I received, since I know that they will stand behind their products 100%.

James