Some time ago I posted about the .30-06, 200 grain bullets and 2,800 feet per second.
The load was posted because I felt it was sound based on data from the Alliant reloading manual that documents the .30-06 with 200 Grain Sierra BT and 58.4 grains of RL22 which in their data yields a 2,700'/sec velocity at 58.4KPSI.
(They actually claim 2,680'/sec and I rounded it to 2,700)

Knowing that there was total justification in reloading the .30-06 to the same pressure levels used in the .270 (62K PSI) I worked up to 60 grains of RL22 and achieved a velocity of 2,765'/sec which I again rounded to 2'800'/sec.

I then received a PM from M 98 in Australia that stated that the pressures in my load was excessive and I'll copy/paste his post to me here. He has consented to this. For those that might try to duplicate this please read the other side of the story!!

PM from M 98

quote:

V.D
just came across your post where you say 2800 fp from a 200 gn in the 06 .....no way
the max you can get is 2700 and thats on the cutting edge of 65,000 psi from a 24 inch barrel
ive pressure tested the 06 into oblivion with 180 gn and 200 gn partitions with allm avaliable powders 180 2810-2830 fps psi of close to 65,000
200 gn partition 2700 fps psi of 65,000 but onley with the real slow burners
regards daniel

Vapodog, I commend you for posting this... there's one guy in particular on AR that posts velocities for several cartridges (and the 30-06 in particular) that show similar velocities to yours... as always, there's very little free lunch in this pursuit and it can turn dangerous when things are pushed.

Way to go...

Vapodog, I respectfully disagree. I see no actual data in that post above from M98. I've been working with M98 with some 180 and 200 gr. '06 loads, and he's been using Re19, WXR, H4350, Norma 204. Just recently he said he was going to use all the slow burners, but that takes time and money. The data may be forthcoming.

I think ~2800 fps with a 200 NosAB is possible with a 24" barrel and PSI limited to 65,000 - see QL predictions below. COL = 3.36". Performance is very much based on COL and bullet type. QL correlated quite nicely with some of M98's data.

Pwd/grs/fps/PSI

MRP/61.0/2826/65000
Re25/62.4/2817/65000
N560/60.6/2807/65000
MAGPRO/63.2/2797/65000
Re22/60.2/2792/65000
WXR/60.4/2791/65000
RaMag/64.3/2783/65000
7828SSC/59.8/2778/65000

See forum "Medium Bore Rifles" - "180/200 grain 30-06 question."

Vapodog, your load - 60 grains of RL22 achieving a velocity of 2,765 fps - is very close to the velocity predicted by QL - that is, Re22/60.2 grs/2792 fps/65,000 psi. You may a great load there - any pressure signs?

GUYS
there is absolutley no way to get 2800 fps in the 06 with a 200 gn proj ....one can get 2700 fps with the slower burning powders like R 22 MRP WXR VVN 165 with a 24 inch tube ...with all these powders when you hit 2700 fps you are at the 63-65,000 psi .
even allowing for a LONG THROATED 06 CHAMBER ,and a chamber that may border on the large size/loose side, will still not compensate enough to bring pressures to under 65,000 psi
at 2800 you are running in the mid 70,000 psi
i have found all the loads of discs give higher velocities for lower pressure
with a given powder pressure equals velocity and velocity equals pressure ....THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH!!!!!!!!!!its that simple
also the figure of 2700 fps is assuming one is willing to work the 06 at 270 pressures ,if one does not feel comftable with that , a velocity of 2600-2650 fps with the slow burners will keep you under 60,000
as i said previously when i have finished my pressure testing i will post it for all to pull apart
regards Daniel

M 98 I suggest you get a message to alliant who is differeng with you. Here again is data from their printed data 2002 edition volume 2

.30-06 Springfield with 24" barrel:
Sierra 200 grain spitz BT
58.4 grains Reloader 22
2,680'/sec and 58,400 PSI

M98, with all respect, show us the data. AIU

QL predicts the following with a 24" barrel, 200 gr. Sierra BT

58.5 grs. Re22 - 2654 fps - 53,500 psi
59.0 grs. Re22 - 2680 fps - 55,100 psi
59.5 grs. Re22 - 2703 fps - 56,800 psi
60.0 grs. Re22 - 2728 fps - 58,500 psi
60.5 grs. Re22 - 2752 fps - 60,300 psi
61.7 grs. Re22 - 2811 fps - 65,000 psi

Remember, bullet and COL play a big role in the final velocity - pressure correlation. BOTH, Vapodog/Alliant and M98 could be right.

Regards and safe/happy shooting, AIU

In all sincerity here folks, even a .308 caliber 200 grain bullet at 2,700'/sec makes a very capable round for all but the world's dangerous game. The extra 100'/sec offers only an additional 250 ft-lbs of energy and one might ask if the extra is necessary in the face of other risks.....(hot weather etc) No matter what, the older I get the better the old .30-06 looks. Especially in a light and short package.

Is this a pha-shaw or a who gives a big rat's ass? roger

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
In all sincerity here folks, even a .308 caliber 200 grain bullet at 2,700'/sec makes a very capable round for all but the world's dangerous game. The extra 100'/sec offers only an additional 250 ft-lbs of energy and one might ask if the extra is necessary in the face of other risks.....(hot weather etc) No matter what, the older I get the better the old .30-06 looks. Especially in a light and short package.

Vapodog

My thinking exactly. I've got a Sauer Lightweight Synthetic 30-06 with a 22" barrel. I've recently started to try and find a load with a 200 grain TSX or 200 grain Accubond at 2700 fps. The main reason is that it will fit the Kahles TDS reticle scope when zeroed at 100 yards.

Loaded 2 loads of TSX with 58.5 and 59 grains RL22 and 1 load Accubond with 58.5 grains RL22. Had a problem with the TSX because they were all over the target and keyholing. Only 2522 abd 2532 fps. The Accubonds shot at a slightly higher velocity of 2581 fps and had a decent group of 1 1/4".

Have now reloaded another set of shells using 60, 60.5, and 61 grains of RL22 using only the Accubonds. Thinking possibly the TSX's are too long to be stabilized by the barrel.

Hoping to hit 2700 fps consistently with the 200 grain bullet in a 30-06 and that will be a killer in a nice light rifle.

Here are just some preliminary data i have
200 gn nosler proj was used 30/06 24 INCH PRESSURE BARREL
WXR 60 GNS MV 2689 PSI 64200
VV 560 60 GNS MV 2641 PSI 61,300
R 22 60 GNS MV 2659 PSI 60400
VV N165 61 GNS MV 2673 PSI 61400
H 4831 61 GNS MV 2672 PSI 66100
200 GN TSX
VVN165 61 GNS MV 2662 PSI 62,200
WXR 60 GNS MV 2687 PSI 66700

JUST THINK OF THE PRESSURE YOUR GETTING WITH H 4831 WITH 65 OR 66 GNS !!!!!!!!!!
REGARDS DANIEL

Daniel, gotta agree... 2700 fps with a 200 grainer in a 22" bbl'd 30-06 is probably a fantasy with "safe" pressures (SAAMI).

This is what QL predicts for 200 gr. Nosler Part in a 24" barrel with COL = 3.36" and using Re22.

grss/velfps/PSI
58.81/2658/53697
60.01/2717/57699
61.21/2776/62051
62.41/2834/66785
63.61/2893/71951

M98 data for Re22

60.0/2659/60400

This means that ~2720 fps is possible with Re22 at ~65,000 psi. - that is, using M98's lot of Re22. It would take ~70,000 psi to achieve ~2800 fps.

QL predicts for Re22

60.8/2754/60400

Clearly, QL is predicting more velocity with the PSIs M98 is measuring with his pressure barrel - a difference of about 100 fps.

Does anyone else have data like M98?

Aliant Powder Company claims the following for 200 Sierra BT with Re22 (I assume 24" barrel):

58.4/2680/58,400

QL predicts:

58.4/2667/54,800
or
59.5/2720/58,400

WHO'S CORRECT?

Regards and safe/happy shooting, AIU

brad
with a 22 inch tube your looking at a m.v of about 2650-2670 with a 200 gn ...thats still nothing to stick your nose up at.....i have taken some really large scrub bulls with just that vel useing the 200gn barnes tsx....the penetration was phenomonal and the bulls just droppedin there tracks
regards daniel

These are the QL predictions for a '06 with a 24" barrel and 200 grs. Sierra BT using various charges of N165.

57.60/2550/52911
58.80/2606/56991
60.00/2663/61441
61.20/2719/66310
62.40/2775/71622

This is M98's data:

61/2673/61400 - 200 gr. Nosler Part
61/2662/62200 - 200 GN TSX

Here are the QL predictions using the 200 grs. Nos Part with various charges of N165:

57.60/2549/52945
58.80/2605/57028
60.00/2661/61484
61.20/2718/66358
62.40/2774/71676
63.60/2831/77486

Here are the QL predictions using N165 with the 200 Barnes TSX:

55.20/2506/52470
56.40/2563/56508
57.60/2620/60922
58.80/2677/65760
60.00/2735/71076
61.20/2792/76945

I'm amazed at how close the vel/PSI correlations are between M98s data and the QL predictions.

As most who use QL will acknowledge it seems to be optimistic both in velocity and in the amount of powder it takes to start to see pressure signs.

In the 45-60gr range of powder charges, I automaticaly reduce the max charge by 2.5gr until worked up.

It is also very flaky around light bullets and slow powders. Thusly a QL predicted top velocity load of MRP or RL 25 often shows much much lower MV as you or I would expect.

It is a useful tool - it is not infallible!

Hello the campfire:
First I would like to say, "Whats the point?" If one or more of you wants to take those kinds of chances OK but remember there are smoe or us that don't have the years of load development that others have and should't be tempted to commit a possibly dangerous act that there is a disagreement on. Lets keep caution in mind when pushing the limits.

That said, if indeed M98 actually tested his loads in his pressure test set up, knew how to set up and calabrate the instruments and ran multi test sequences to generate the datam for each load, and how to standerdize each set of conditions ( ambiant tepm, atm. pressure, barrel temp, humidity), to reproduce the same "shot" time after time, and applied standard statistical analysis to the data, I would trust his data overall more that a soft wear program prediction, not knowing the algorithm used to do the calculations, or the information inputted to the calculations. BUT and this is a big but, the teat results are only good for M98's test rifle. Mine might be close to his, but every bore and chamber has a variance that will change the expected values to a greater or lesser amount.

Having spent many years in medical practice and research before becoming an attorney, I have to have an idea of the methodology before I can trust someones data when it might involve my health and well being, and marginal overpressure risks my boyish good looks.

Be careful and God Bless,

William J. Brower (Judge Sharpe)

judge
marginal over pressure has never killed anybody ,or at least anybody i know
and as for my data it can be used for any bodys rifle as an example if on the pressure gun
as an EXAMPLE 60 gns of R 22 gives a velocity of 2800 fps at a pressure of 60,000 psi in the 06
it it no big deal to get your rifle and start 4 grains below and work up with the same powder until you reach that velocity , once you reach that velocity weather it be with 58 gn of R 22 or with 62 gns of R22 you will be very close if not right on the nose of 60,000 psi in this case ...assuming your barrel is the same length
i have seen this over and over gain i can get three or four diffrent 06 pressure barrels and
work each barrel with a load to a velocity of say in this case of 2800 fps but with each barrel there may be a diffrence of between 1 and three grains of the same powder to reach that velocity of 2800
remember velocity equals pressure and pressure equals velocity.....THERE ARE NO FREE LUNCHES!!

M98:
Please accept my apology if I mis-states my position. I ment to support you. It sounds like you know what you are doing ad I would rauther follow your direction than a software package I do not know any thing about. As far a marginal overpressure, you are right, it never kille anyone. But bad rifles have come appart and I don't know about anyones but mine. I work up my loads as you suggested and have for many years. I just seem to get what I need without pushing the limits. My point is that when we are talking about a close to max load, before I accept it as safe, I want to know how it was developed. Then I will work it up for my specific rifle myself, if I think I need that particular load. Mostly I don't need more than the published data, which I also work up to.
Please accept that I did not mean to disparage your work, or question your expertise.

Judge Sharpe

What is totally ridiculas about loading a 06 to those pressures or velocities is that a 200 gr. bullet at 2500 or 2600 is just as effective both from a killing power standpoint or a trajectory standpoint in actual field hunting conditions....So why is my question, just to prove an insugnificant point? come to think of it I have to plead guilty to such sillyness at times!!

Some years back, in the 90s I believe, Federal loaded .30-06 ammo with a 200 gr Sierra Game King. Federal listed the velocity as 2550 fps. Of course, that was to meet the standard SAAMI pressure spec for the .30-06 which we all know is a little lower than for the .270 Winchester.

Still, even if we take 2550 fps as what would be considered the standard "factory spec" for a 200 gr bullet in the .30-06, it has some interesting characteristics.

Using Federal factory ammo velocities as a basis of comparison:

.30-06 200 gr bullet
Muzzle Velocity: 2550 , Sectional Density: .301

.375 H&H 300 gr bullet
Muzzle Velocity: 2530 , Sectional Density: .305


Very similar sectional densities at very similar muzzle velocities. I'm not trying to say that the .30-06 matches the .375 H&H in power. I'm just pointing out that the .30-06 with 200gr bullets has the same velocity and sectional density properties that work so well in the .375 H&H.

I haven't fooled around much with 200 gr bullets in the .30-06 but I have loaded the 200 gr Speer and 200 gr Nosler Partition using RL-22 and gotten around 2600 fps without any problems. (Ruger M77 MkII, 22 inch barrel)

Even at "only" 2600 fps, a 200 gr bullet will shoot surprisingly flat. (Assuming a decent BC.) As an example, here's the data for the 200 gr Nosler Partition (BC=.481) with a zero at 200 yards:


(Zero wind velocity was used.)

Chart made using the ballistics calculator at www.realguns.com


Just my ramblings....
-Bob F.

judge
no offence... ballistics is a field that is a life long experince of learning ...i enjoy it and have got access to this equipement so im making the most of it and as i have said before once i finish my pressure data on the 06 i will post it in its entirity to be torn apart !!! for those that have got no use for it and to be used by those that want to
regards daniel

RAY
i can not see anything ridiclous about running a 06 at pressures that one runs the 270 win at or for that matter running the 200 gn nosler at 2700 at a psi of 63,000
regards daniel

quote:

Originally posted by M 98:
Here are just some preliminary data i have
200 gn nosler proj was used 30/06 24 INCH PRESSURE BARREL
WXR 60 GNS MV 2689 PSI 64200
VV 560 60 GNS MV 2641 PSI 61,300
R 22 60 GNS MV 2659 PSI 60400
VV N165 61 GNS MV 2673 PSI 61400
H 4831 61 GNS MV 2672 PSI 66100
200 GN TSX
VVN165 61 GNS MV 2662 PSI 62,200
WXR 60 GNS MV 2687 PSI 66700

JUST THINK OF THE PRESSURE YOUR GETTING WITH H 4831 WITH 65 OR 66 GNS !!!!!!!!!!
REGARDS DANIEL

M 98, if you go back and look at my original load data that was put forth that started all of this heckabaloo here, you will notice that my loads for 2800 fps with a 200 grain Speer was at 62.5 grains of H 4831 SC. I don't know if the SC version is any different in burn rate than regular 4831, but since it is an Australian made powder you can certainly test both.

When I mentioned loading as high as 65 and 66 grains, It was at that point that I started getting loose primers. As for my own use, 2800 fps with 62.5 grains is just fine for me.

I also pointed out that the rifle was an Enfield 1917 US model, that had a 26 inch barrel, which will help the velocity, and also has a long throat which was taken advantage of... which will also increase velocity and reduce pressure...

Some of you guys need to pay a little closer attention to some of those FINE details.... as they are mentioned....

I do find that 180 grain bullets can be loaded with 65 grains of H 4831SC but the difference in velocity increase from the 60 grains of powder was not all that much....

My Winchester Model 70, also showed very close to the same results as the Enfield with a 24 inch barrel on the Winchester....

As VapoDog points out, if one is happy with 2700 fps, then use it.... I agree that 100 to 150 fps is not going to make or break a hunt....

I handload rifles to know the different usable parameters, both high and low.... on the 30/06 from 200 grainers at 2800 fps on the high end... to 150 grain Ballistic tips or MagTips at 1600 fps....What is usable in the field....

NO ONE is tying anyone up to their reload bench and TELLING them they have to do this....
INFO is being shared, that is all....

If it doesn't suit your fancy, then leave it alone.... Don't look at it as a personal invitation FOR YOU to point out to everyone else that you think it is waaaaay overloaded and they are going to blow themselves up...

If you want to do that, AR has provided the Political Forum where you can criticize everyone for anything....

seafire

seafire/B17G, I think we all respect each other's right to do as we will - how could any of us stop the other.

That aside, I believe there are better powders on the market than H4831. I'd suggest trying Re25 or Re22 or Retumbo - all slow burners that should provide maximum performance at the lowest PSI, especially with 180 gr. or larger bullets. I'd like to see M98's data with these powders for both 180 and 200 gr. bullets. Have you tried them?

Regards and safe/happy shooting, AIU

quote:

Originally posted by M 98:
...with a given powder pressure equals velocity and velocity equals pressure .......

Hey Daniel, The logic of the above statement is "misleading" due to the multiple variations in the internal dimensions between rifles and variations of all the cartridge components.

And, P most certainly does not equal V nor does V equal P. That is a bunch of trash that got started back on the old Shooter's Board years ago and has yet to die.

quote:

...200 gn nosler proj was used 30/06 24 INCH PRESSURE BARREL...

What kind of "Pressure Barrel" do you have? How did you Calibrate it?

If it is a non-Calibrated Home Strain Gauge System, then your results can be w-a-y off, by 2000psi-35,000psi(as one guy posted in an old thread concerning his 308Win) depending on a multitude of things. And, the sucker could be right on the nose - for your rifle.

Hey! there are other ways of getting the gain you want other than pushing the envelope. Who needs it really and what have you proved.Some brave gunner with a soft (relative term) mod. 98 is going to fallow suite and safely melt some brass. When he tries to hammer the bolt open he'll chip his bolt face and later when he gets his new bolt he'll discover that he has set back in his receiver. Does anybody wonder how I know all this good stuff? don't step in any of it. roger

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
Hey! there are other ways of getting the gain you want other than pushing the envelope. Who needs it really and what have you proved.Some brave gunner with a soft (relative term) mod. 98 is going to fallow suite and safely melt some brass. When he tries to hammer the bolt open he'll chip his bolt face and later when he gets his new bolt he'll discover that he has set back in his receiver. Does anybody wonder how I know all this good stuff? don't step in any of it. roger

With all due respects friend may I say that if some one with a Mauser encounters set back it's not from the 65,000 PSI loads being discussed here. It would also happen to him firing factory ammunition with a .25-06 or .270 Winchester cartridge. If he's dumb enough to build (or have built) a Mauser actioned rifle and ommitted the heat treat the subject matter of this thread is of no consequence to him.

Further no brass is going to melt with 65,000 PSI.....Again if brass is melted it's purely because of his stupidity by not starting low and working up. Near brass melting pressures will produce lots of serious signs prior to reaching these levels.

This thread was started to warn others that I had posted a load that might be over SAAMI specs and as of this discussion anyone that decides to replicate the load does so at his own risk. As far as I'm concerned the load mentioned 60 grains of RL22 with a 200 grain bullet in a .30-06 is a good (albeit hi end) load in MY rifle. Neither I nor anyone is claiming it a suitable place for anyone to start loading for the .30-06.

There's been many published loads that I have tried to duplicate (specifically for my .243 Superrockchucker) and couldn't come close to because of pressure signs that yelled "stop" at me.

Any new reloader that assumes that he has free license to play outside the published load data or don't have to start low and work up is in serious trouble and this thread will not do any good or harm at all for him.

quote:

Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:
This is what QL predicts for 200 gr. Nosler Part in a 24" barrel with COL = 3.36" and using Re22.

grss/velfps/PSI
58.81/2658/53697
60.01/2717/57699
61.21/2776/62051
62.41/2834/66785
63.61/2893/71951

M98 data for Re22

60.0/2659/60400

This means that ~2720 fps is possible with Re22 at ~65,000 psi. - that is, using M98's lot of Re22. It would take ~70,000 psi to achieve ~2800 fps.

QL predicts for Re22

60.8/2754/60400

Clearly, QL is predicting more velocity with the PSIs M98 is measuring with his pressure barrel - a difference of about 100 fps.

Does anyone else have data like M98?

Aliant Powder Company claims the following for 200 Sierra BT with Re22 (I assume 24" barrel):

58.4/2680/58,400

QL predicts:

58.4/2667/54,800
or
59.5/2720/58,400

WHO'S CORRECT?

Regards and safe/happy shooting, AIU

The Aliant Powder Co. data would suggest ~2760 fps for Re22, 200 Sierra BT, 24" barrel, and 65,000 PSI. Still 40 fps short of 2800. QL predicts Re22/60.2/2792/65000 - roughly 30 fps more than the Aliant data would suggest. Quite close in my opinion. I'd love to see M98s data for Re25 or Retumbo.

HOTCORE
i think we have been through this before ...let me explain for a given powder in a given rifle pressure equals velocity and velocity equals pressure...as you increase the powder charge you increase the velocity and therefore increase pressre ...as you decrease the powder charge you decrease the pressure and thus velocity ...its pretty black and white to me i think you are reading into my statement to much ! and screwing it up unneccessarily!
regards daniel

HOT CORE
sorry did not answer your question completley
the barrel that the pressure testing is done on is one at the AUSTRALIAN DEFENCE INDUSTRIES with a transducer mounted in it
the whole thing is calibrated each time my loads are pressure tested with SAMMI REFRENCE AMMUNITION fired through the gun at a designated temp and then the results are corrected for vel and pressure
this set up is not one which has a stain gauge glued onto the reciver ,this set up is the one which has a electronic transducer threaded into the barrel and the pressure testing is done in a enclosed lab which is controlled for temp/ humidity etc etc
regards daniel

quote:

Originally posted by M 98:
HOTCORE
i think we have been through this before ...let me explain for a given powder in a given rifle pressure equals velocity and velocity equals pressure...as you increase the powder charge you increase the velocity and therefore increase pressre ...as you decrease the powder charge you decrease the pressure and thus velocity ...its pretty black and white to me i think you are reading into my statement to much ! and screwing it up unneccessarily!
regards daniel

Hey Daniel, I don't remember discussing it before with you, but I do my best to correct this totally incorrect foolishness everytime I see it. The serious problem is it "misleads" Beginning Reloaders and those who think they understand Reloading but still have a lot to learn.

After you load a bit longer, you will notice the Velocity increase is not always the same amount for each "increment" of Powder increase.(aka Non-Linear increases) It can easily be seen across a chronograph if the shooter simply maintains good records. If you had seen that, you would know how misleading the totally wrong (V=P, P=V) statement is. I'm not saying that(or any of this post) as a put-down to you, just mentioning it so you (and anyone else) can see it for yourself.

It is as wrong as anyone thinking there is a conversion factor for CUP to PSI. The current foolishness on that is also "misleading" since it is not accurate in all Case/Load combinations. Therefore, it can also get a Beginner headed into an area where he thinks he is SAFE when in reality he might not be.
---

Since you did not respond to my question:

quote:

What kind of "Pressure Barrel" do you have? How did you Calibrate it?

I'm going to go out on a limb and "guess" you have a non-calibrated HSGS.(If we discussed that before, I don't remember it either.) Due to having to guess at your source of information, all your Pressure Data is questionable and has no tangible benefit in any rational discussion concerning what constitutes a SAFE or UN-SAFE Load.

If the "Data" is from a non-calibrated HSGS, then the reader can easily determine that the value of the "Data" has less value than if it was from an actual Calibrated SGS. Two totally different things that either have questionable value, or excellent discussion input.

But you are certainly not alone, most all the folks with non-calibrated HSGSs tend to do the same thing. The enter a thread with "Data(?)" they believe is of value or they believe proves some point. But, they NEVER mention it is from a non-calibrated HSGS unless someone questions them. Then they typically go into some kind of defensive position that really gives away their (in)experience level.

So, I would suggest to you or anyone, that if you choose to quote "Data(?)" from a non-calibrated HSGS, from a Calibrated SGS, or an actual SAAMI Pressure Barrel, let people know so they understand the actual value of the input.

By the way, I did notice your "Data(?)" was fairly close to the Calculated Data(?) that AIU mentioned. If you look at his posts, you will notice he mentioned the actual Ballistic Software he was using. He was not trying to hide it from anyone and everyone can assign whatever level of "value" to it they desire.

HOTCORE
I think i answered your question in relation to the type of pressure barrel ....the barrel is threaded to take an electronic transducer ...it is not the one which has got the strain gauge glued on to the barrel\
daniel

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by bartsche:
Hey! there are other ways of getting the gain you want other than pushing the envelope. Who needs it really and what have you proved.Some brave gunner with a soft (relative term) mod. 98 is going to fallow suite and safely melt some brass. When he tries to hammer the bolt open he'll chip his bolt face and later when he gets his new bolt he'll discover that he has set back in his receiver. Does anybody wonder how I know all this good stuff? don't step in any of it. roger

""With all due respects If he's dumb enough to build (or have built) a Mauser actioned rifle and ommitted the heat treat the subject matter of this thread is of no consequence to him.""

dummy me!!!!!!!! I guess i'm just not a purest.Gee I wonder if there are more heat treated Mausers in the field than non heat treated???

""Further no brass is going to melt with 65,000 PSI.....Again if brass is melted it's purely because of his stupidity by not starting low and working up.""

There are a few of us dingy experimenters that have made a lot of brass flow with high TEMPERATURES. Check with Clark Magnuson ,he has a ton of data on this and some great photos.

Have you ever tried to work up loads with 7383? There are other powders like 7383 that have burnig rate quirks that defy the technique of which you speak.

Thank you for the acalades Vapodog!Stupid dummy; OK I'll accept that.I still ,however would advise anyone who wants to shoot .30 caliber ,200gr. bullets at 2800ft./sec, as a steady diet to go buy something larger than a 30-06.

There is no arguement that this can be done without injury. There just isn't any practicle need. Thanks again , Vapodog, for your always brilliant posting and brotherly response. roger

quote:

Originally posted by M 98:
HOTCORE
I think i answered your question in relation to the type of pressure barrel ....the barrel is threaded to take an electronic transducer ...it is not the one which has got the strain gauge glued on to the barrel\
daniel

You certainly did, but you must have been posting it at the same time I was entering my last post. Had I seen it, I would not have included the second portion.

Best of luck to you.

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
...I still ,however would advise anyone who wants to shoot .30 caliber ,200gr. bullets at 2800ft./sec, as a steady diet to go buy something larger than a 30-06....

Seems like the thing I'd recommend to. Are you advocating a "Belted Mag"?

We obviously have to keep an eye on you all the time or you will get another of those Standard vs Magnum threads cranked up. Just remember that St. Pete has that little assistant taking notes.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
...I still ,however would advise anyone who wants to shoot .30 caliber ,200gr. bullets at 2800ft./sec, as a steady diet to go buy something larger than a 30-06....

Seems like the thing I'd recommend to. Are you advocating a "Belted Mag"?

aahhhh, I guess I am.I looked at one of those Rugers with the funny scope mounting.
Now if that were in 30 Norma we might have something. We will not call it compromise just a meeting of the minds. roger