I've posted this in Military Rifles but thought I'd put it up here for those who don't look about. I'm interested in any information on this cartridge or loads and experiences with same.

I've had a long relationship with this cartridge currently being consumated with an
Argentine M91 Carbine ("Engineer" type). The latest in a long line of rifles, I prefer
the 91 action due to it's compactness. this cartridge has taught me a lot about reloading and shooting and I now have a sentimental attachment to it.

As I understand it, the carbines were all sighted to use the original load of a 215 grain
bullet at approximately 2100-2200 fps from the 29" rifle bore. I'm supposing that the
same bullet did about 2000 fps from the carbine and I tried to duplicate that load.
However, my load does 2150 fps (or thereabouts) and it still shoots to the sights
in MY carbine.

If anyone has any experiences or information about this cartridge they'd like to share I would truly appreciate it.

I probably won't be of much help to you, but I wanted to respond since I shoot one of these also. Although I've had my 91' Argentine Mauser for many years, I just started reloading for it within the last few months. Mine is not the carbine version, it has the full 29" barrel.

The only load I've worked with so far uses the .312" 150 grain Hornady SP over IMR4350. I'm using a Fed 210 primer and Norma brass. I'm using IMR4350 because that's what I already had. There are probably better powders and I will explore that soon. I'm getting about 2500fps with a max of 48 grains of IMR 4350. I get 1 inch groups at 50 yards. The rifle is not scoped.

I think the 7.65 Arg. is a very nice cartridge and look forward to developing additional loads for it.

[ 09-25-2002, 19:27: Message edited by: Delta Hunter ]

That's actually a pretty good load. I've used IMR 4064 and am using H4831 with the 215 grain Woodleighs. I've also used IMR 3031. You should be able to duplicate .300 Savage velocities but beware, the chambers on these sometimes are radically different. I'd like to hear more about your experiences, group sizes at longer ranges, hunting experience (if you ever decide to drag that gun hunting!), etc.

Hobie, I've got to leave here in a few minutes. I'll respond tomorrow with some more information.

Hey Hobie, I've got a buddy, Terry, who loves the 7.65 Mauser. It has become somewhat of a "good problem" for him because he seeks out places to use it's Iron Sights rather than use his scoped 30-06. And he has some nice "Wall Hangers" since he has made this change in his hunting style.

Cases for it can be made from any of the -06 size cases. Only problem is that it takes a good bit of trimming. This gets the actual case cost way down.

He uses IMR-4064 in his with a 150gr SP and a 174gr RN, both by Hornady. Since he has chosen to use it "up close", his preference leans toward the 174gr RN, but either works well for him on our Southeastern Deer and Hogs.

Hobie, here's a little more information for you. I inherited my 7.65 in 1973 when my grandfather passed away. So I've had it for almost 30 years. Because my grandfather owned it, it has a lot of sentimental value to me. I have not altered it in any way since it came into my hands and I never will. It will always remain the way my grandad knew it.

When this rifle became mine I already owned a scoped rifle and since I prefer rifles with scopes, I have never hunted much with the 91' Mauser, maybe 4 or 5 times. It's only accounted for one deer in my hands and that was years ago. In fact, this rifle sat unused in the gun rack for probably 20 years prior to last year. It was then that I thought what a shame it was not to use it. So I dusted it off, cleaned it up real good (I completely dissassembled it down to the last part) and went to the range with it. Off the bench with Norma factory ammo I was getting 3 inch groups with the iron sights. I thought that was pretty decent, especially considering the poor condition of the bore. I am continually amazed at the fine workmanship that went into this rifle. It was made by DWM in Berlin.

Now this year I bought some Redding dies and loaded up some rounds using the IMR 4350 and 150 grain Hornadys. Accuracy has been slightly better than the factory stuff and velocity has been okay too. As I mentioned, I am going to try some other powders soon. But the 4350 is working well, so I might end up settling on that since I've got plenty on hand.

Since I took it off the rack last year I've really enjoyed shooting it and reloading for it. Every time I look at it I am reminded of my grandfather and how much he meant to me. To be using the same rifle he took afield is very special. After a long hiatus, it'll be with me again this year, at least a few times, when I go to the woods.

It is amazing how much an inanimate object like a gun can bring back memories of the wonderful people who brought us up...

I've made cases (for a while I had to, gosh but those Norma cases were expensive) from 8x57, .270 Win., and .30-06 brass. All work.

My first 7.65 was an M91 that had been, er, sporterized. The reticule on the scope floated all over so I gave it to somebody who wanted to play with it. I bought a new Fajen stock to replace the butchered military stock and mounted a Williams FPRS and Remington front ramp with Williams post. This gun shot pretty well but a divorce forced me to cut down on my collection and this gun moved before some others.

Interestingly, it must have had a pretty sloppy chamber because in my current carbine I could not chamber brass that had been fired in it until after it had been full length resized. Then it didn't chamber easily because of base expansion. After it had been fired again it fit the new chamber. Factory Norma ammo chambered slick as a whistle.

One more thing, while I'm thinking of it. Norma has apparently dropped the 150 grain load and now only imports a 180 grain load. At least the 150 is close to mil-spec in performance, the 180 seems to be neither fish nor fowl.

I use the .312 or .311 180s in my .303 Brits and they are fine bullets. However, I don't think they work well with the mil-sights on my Argentines.

I have used the 7.65 on a 1909 action for years.

Even took it along to Zimbabwe in '86

It killed Duikers to Kudu quite well with 174 Hornady RN bullets.

Limit your shot to 100 yards, and bullet placement is everything.

Terry,

What was your load?

I've used the Hornady 174 grain (my first reloading!) with IMR 4064. I think I worked up to 43 grains. This was used in a 20" and that gun had a William FPRS.

I have been shooting an M1909 Arg. for over 20 years. I found that some .308 bullets are extremely accurate in mine, as well as the .311-.312's! Specifically, mine will shoot under 1 MOA with handloads using both the 200-grain Nosler Partition and 200-grain Sierra PSPBT, which it shoots into the same group @ 100 yards. It is also very accurate with 165 and 180-grain .308" Sierras. In a 29" barrelled M1909, this round is capable of velocities exceeding the .308 Winchester, and closely approaching .30/'06 24" barrel speeds.

Yes, I think in the '09 action you can about split the difference between the .308 and .30-06. Unfortunately (?) in the 1891 action .300 Savage velocities are more the style. That's not too shabby though as the .300 Savage gave 150/2600 which was original .30-06 performance.

I see that several people hunt with this cartridge but I've not seen anyone else mention using the .308 bullets. I've see where some .303 Brits were fed .308 bullets with success. that would certainly make it more economical to shoot the heavy 200-220 grain bullets (which I believe are "correct" for the carbine sights).

Any other info? History? I'm interested in the Belgian gun, did it have the barrel jacket? Did you like or loathe that feature?

SOME 7.65/.303 barrels will shoot .308 bullets with acceptabl;e accuracy. It is worth trying this if you have one, because it will greatly increase the range of bullets you can use if it works!! (In the early days of smokeless powder, the Europeans often used undersized bullets. For example, the "J" bored Mauser & Commission (M88) 8x57J rifles shot .318" bullets, BUT, their bore diameter specification was .322"!!

SORRY!! Meant that GROOVE diameter was .322"!!