hi i am looking at buying a chronograph to check how my handloads are doing and so i can imput the exact velocity into my ballistics program,the models i am looking at are: the CED millennium and the beta chrony.please cld u give me your opinions on these.
thank you
p.s i dont want to spend too much on one as it will only be used occasionally

At one point in my life I really got into ballistics and had a couple of chronographs. While the owner of a shooting chrony and and ohler (however it's spelled), I did a test. The theory is that the greater the distance between the sky screens, the greater the accuracy. The Ohler 35p uses 3 sky screens, and takes two velocity readings and double checks itself. You can make the sky screen distance anything you want because you mount the screens on a piece of concuit. The chrony has if I remember correctly has a 12 inch set screen distance.
So for a test I set my Ohler up with a 10 foot piece of conduit with the screens at 5 and 10 feet, respectively. I then placed my chrony within the 10 feet Ohler screens at about the 7-1/2 foot mark and proceeded to fire away and see how the reading compared. Well, ALL of the readings were exactly the same. That's right, there was no difference at all, there might have been a couple of 1 fps differences but that's it, and I probably fired 50 shots thru it.
So, my conclusion was that the Ohler, while a fine instrument, took too long to setup and need a truckload of parts to work, while the Chrony is contained in a small box that folds and can be carried in a Yugo. It was so much easier to use that I sold the Ohler and now use a Chrony when I'm not being too lazy to care about speed.
Hope this helps, by the way a Chrony is 1/5 the price of an Ohler.

[ 10-21-2003, 14:20: Message edited by: Bobby ]

I have a Pact Professional with Ballistics Computer. I never have tried any other since I didn't have one until my stepfather passed away and willed his to me. The ballistic computer allows you sight-in at 25 yds. then you can put the velocity, zero range, bullet type, weight and manufacturer, crosswind, starting and ending range and it will print off a drop chart for the particular load or calcuate maximum point blank range. After running everything through the computer, I move to the hundred yard range to test it out, so far, the variations I have seen between the drop chart and my actual firing tests appear to be more my problem than the chrono. and are certainly good enough for hunting. It runs on a nine volt battery and uses 2&1/4" thermal paper. It is easy to use with the instructions supplied and on the occasions I have called the Pact Tech. Support group, I have never had any complaints with the service I received.

The only problem I have with it is that they do not have any .45 calliber bullets (memory shortage) or bullets that have come out in the last 2 years. They are working on an updated chip that they are hoping to have out soon and they will send it to owners to plug in to their machine.

I've owned an Oehler 33 for the past sixteen years, and it's provided excellent, trouble-free service in all respects. Oehler is considered the gold-standard in personal chronographs, and I wouldn't buy any other brand, regardless of price.

Always avoid chronographs that require you to shoot over the chronograph box itself. It's stupid to shoot bullets over expensive mechanisms in the first place, and chonograph manufacturers receive orders every day for new screens to replace those that were inadvertently destroyed by stray bullets. Screens are inexpensive - chronographs are not.

AD

I've run the formal repeatability tests on the Chrony, and its repeatability is excellent. It really does resolve pretty close to 1 fps. I have found no good reason to buy anything else.

There are only two kinds of chronographs: Those that don't get used much, and those that are going to get shot. So there is a grain of truth in the argument that says you only put the inexpensive part downrange.

That said, I did drill my Chrony a couple of months ago, after putting many hundreds of rounds over it. My solution was another Chrony. For as little as they cost, you save little vs. the cost of other brands of sensors.

There is also some truth in the statement that a longer baseline will be more accurate, all other factors equal. If you're getting a perfectly sharp trigger as the bullet passing over the sensor, the limiting factor will be how many "parts" the chronograph can resolve. The digital clock in the Chrony runs at 12 Mhz. A 3,000 fps bullet will transit the sensors in .333 milliseconds. A 12 MHz clock "ticks" 12,000,000 times per second, or nearly 4,000 times in .333 milliseconds. So it effectively breaks that .333 milliseconds into 4,000 parts, which is plenty for resolving nearly 1 fps. A 3 foot baseline, with a 4 MHz clock will give you the same resolution.

I bought a Beta Chrony and I never used one before. It was pretty easy to set up and I'm very happy with the data I'm getting. I take an average velocity and use that in a ballistic calculator. You'll be surprised on the readings from your gun verses the reloading manuals muzzle velocity figures. Sometimes they are 2 or 300 fps different.

I struggled with an F1 Chrony for too many years before I finally shot it - INTENTIONALLY!

No foolin', I would usually have to load 50% more ammo than I needed when testing since the Chrony wouldn't "see" about half the shots over it. They seem very sensitive to the sun's position, reflected light, et al. One evening after about my tenth ignored shot, I lowered my aim and tumbled that infernal thing over backwards, along with the camera tripod. I felt better right away!

On the advice of a couple friends, I bought a Pro Chrono for about $100 from Midway and have lived happily ever after. The end.

Truthfully, it hasn't yet missed a shot and if I do inadvertantly pink it, I'll send this one back for repair, confident that I'll get a functioning unit back.

HTH

Redial

I've had a Chrony since they came on the market. (same one, I guess I'm a bad shot)It does what I want it to do which is tell me how fast my bullets are going.

I bought the CED & they are excellent. Not as quick to set up as a chrony but not as bad as an Oehler. Cheaper too & has all the functions you could want.

If you can get by with the minimum, get a factory refurb(full warrantee) F-1 Chrony from the factory, direct, for $49.95. After three years my hasn't had a hiccup.

I've had the same experience as Redial, except mine is a Shooting Chrony. Wish I had bought a different brand. Why I's always gots to git the brokin' one?

Turok

I use a chrony myself and am careful about setting it up as far as sunlight and I have had no real problems with it.I always shoot a 22 over it to test it so I don't waste centerfire loads in case something is not quite right.I have used mine a great deal and it has never been shot , but then I won't let anyone else shoot over it either.

I bought two F-1 Chrony's because I had so much trouble getting a read. It wasn't as good of an idea as I thought because they usually worked or failed in unison, so it seems it is the lighting that�s the problem. When the light is right everything is great, but I still haven't figured out exactly what light is right, but I usually have good luck at noon. I did discover that it always works better without those stupid screens.

I can honestly say I've had few if any missed shots with the Chrony. I do normally use the sky screens. If it's overcast you can sometimes get away without them, but direct sunlight will "blind" the eyes. I wonder if something isn't wrong with the ones having that much trouble. I've clocked everything from arrows, pellet guns, bb guns, and paintballs just to play with it when it was new and it's always worked. Sure I've missed the odd one now and again, but never to any annoying point like being described here. Maybe I just got a really good one. If I had that much trouble, I sure would be looking for something different.
My neighbor has a brand new Chrony with the seperate display and printer, that has never been shot at (or over), I'll take it out and play with it to see how a new one does, maybe they've cheapened them up or something.

I have a Pact, and a Chrony F-1. The only real difference between the two is you don't shoot across the Pact, just its screens.
Chrony Disaster

To be perfectly honest, I've nicked the Pact's screen housings, too. That is, before I put up a piece of 5/8" steel as a guard! They will all measure bullet speed well enough for our uses. Just like anything else, the more you spend, the more bells & whistles you get. JMHO>>>>>>>Bug.

[ 10-22-2003, 15:09: Message edited by: Bug ]

More than one person has reported problems getting the Chrony to "see" shots, so something is going on.

Mine practically never misses shots. I chronograph between about 10 a.m. and 4 p.m., on sunny days. I consider it sunny enough if I can see the shadow of the Chrony and the tripod. If I can't do that, I don't use it. I always use the sunscreens, without the extenders. I set the Chrony and tripod about 10-12 feet from the muzzle, so that muzzle flash doesn't bother it. Just about the only problem I have is if a fly flies over one of the photocells.

It may be that there are some defective units floating around out there, or it may be that set up technique makes a difference. All I can say is that mine seems to work perfectly.

Im happy with my CED !

some of the best money I spent was the 65$ for my F-1 Chrony. No bells and whistles, just tell me the speed of the bullet. I take notes, get into Excel and calculate standard dev, ave, spread, etc. I dont really want that data to confuse me WHILE I am shooting.

In the winter, if the sun is low to my left or right, I tilt one of my tripod adjustments to angle the chrony toward the sun slightly.

The best way I've found to get past the lighting problems with a Chrony is to use the unit upside down, skyscreens and all. My camera tripod allows me to do this. A sheet of butcher paper under the unit helps too. This also allows me to use the unit on rainy days.

Maybe one of these days I'll experiment with a big chunk of white plastic in place of the skyscreens (lid off of a RubberMaid box?). I think that any white translucent diffuser would work.

By the way, I strongly suggest that Chrony owners make a boo-boo plate to protect the unit. I have a remote readout, so I use a 3" thick chunk of close-cell foam( fits in the front shelf), onto which I've glued a stack of 4 printed circuit boards. I strap the boo-boo plate to the unit when setting up. The idea is to deflect a bullet. I killed my first Chrony with my .45acp. My second one has been shot with a .38spl, .45acp and a .44mag - no rifles yet. The boo-boo plate works.

I use the CED Millenium and love it. Using the chrono in it's basic form does require enough natural light to make a shadow to work but so do all the others and it does it very well, however the CED has one feature available the rest don't; infrared lighting.
I just ordered that option as the ability to shoot when I want to vs when Mother Nature wants me to shoot is extremely valuble to me(sunny days are a premium in Michigan in the fall). No rigging with light bulbs to create the same effect and It will also allow me to test my loads in actual hunting lighting conditions (early morning/late afternoon). I really like the large size of the display and the ability to download the info to my computer with it's data capture program is a real plus. I won't attempt to get into clock cycles and other technical matters to compare to other chronos as people far more informed than I can address that, but for me it delivers the goods in spades.

I have a CED Millenium and it is excellent. I had an old Oehler. When I retired it for a new one I got the CED and it has not failed me yet. I use it an awful lot.

My Chrony just plumb doesn�t work all that well. I�ve tried placing it further away � 15� � to no avail. I�ve tried it with the diffusers, without the diffusers, with a strip of frosted scotch tape over the photocell, installed a new battery, consulted the manual for any other advise and found on P 10 tip #2

�Under a clear sky, the CHRONY may not function properly because of insufficient light intensity! (Contrary to what may be expected, the brightness of a clear sky is significantly less than that of a cloudy or hazy sky.)�

But then in the next sentence,

�Finally, under a cloudy or hazy sky, it is possible for photo sensors to receive too much light.�

I thought �fine, I�ll just use it when it�s cloudy�. So I�ve been shooting on sunny days, windy days, rainy days, cloudy days, and even hazy days. I tell you, the next Err 2 message I get may send me over the edge!

Turok

I'm beginning to believe that not all Chrony's are created equal. There's just too many complaints. I still haven't had time to play with my neighbor's new F1 yet, but I'm going to see if it's as easy as mine to get a reading on.

I wore out two Chronys, a Beta and a Gamma model. By wore out I mean within a year the diffusers broke and the printer ceased to operate properly. I learned about chronographs on these machines and used them at least three days a week, and they served me well. I did experience the usual Chrony problems and learned you have to have the alignment perfect or you get the dreaded ERR 2 reading, meaning the bullet didn't pass over the second eye. On bright sunny days I seemed to get some extremely fast readings on occasion. ----- When I my second Chrony became a bother to patch the diffusers and cuss the printer, I bought an Oehler 35P. I keep the diffusers set up on the bar, and simply attach to the tripod, which I also keep set to proper height, plug in to the very efficient and durable printer and shoot. The larger space between the diffusers prevents knicks by bullets, etc. ----- I no longer doubt readings and feel I have a super accurate account of what the bullets are doing. Well that is my experience, for what it is worth. Good shooting.

[ 10-23-2003, 17:52: Message edited by: phurley ]

After yesterday I'm in the market for my fourth chronograph. All the previous three were Cronys. After listening to some of you tell of your good results with this brand I've decided that I must be terribly unlucky Or just dumber than hell for making the same mistake three times.A couple months ago when I called the factory and told them of my problem, A gentleman with a lilting accent said " O Mr. Bartsche your cord is to short you need a new or longer cord. The 15 foot cord we supply is not adequate to eliminate reading the gas going over the sensors."When I told him to send it I was informed it was my responsibility to acquire the cord.Crony would not supply it.But I might be able to find it at Radio Shack.
Now if you want a real good buy on a couple of Cronys I will be more than happy to acommodate you.The third one is dead I shot it.
I think I'll go after the gold standard that one of you discribed. Roger

Gee, we're only talking about a standard phone cord - nothing special. You can get any length you want from WhateverMart for $1.369. I'm not sure why your blowing smoke at the Chrony is Chrony's fault.

Another huge CED fan. I had a PACT that really pissed me off on a regular basis. One great feature on the CED is the low battery indicator. Every time I'd get flaky or no readings on my Pact I would change the 9V battery for fear of that being the reason.

I have purchased the infrared kit but haven't used it yet, haven't needed it!

Roger

[QUOTE]Originally posted by dla:
[QB]"Gee, we're only talking about a standard phone cord - nothing special. You can get any length you want from WhateverMart for $1.369."
Well I went to what ever mart and r shake for the 7 wire cord with no success.The real point was they sold an item that they knew had this problem in a certain pecentage of there units and were unwilling to back up their product.Also the design uses a battery that is really to small for the drain put on it.Gee if you think we should tell our British bretheren to go out and buy a Crony you have every right to do so and I won't try to belittle you with a public derogative posting.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by rogerinneb:
[ "Every time I'd get flaky or no readings on my Pact I would change the 9V battery for fear of that being the reason."

Roger. The low battery problem can be mostly solved by building yourself a 6 D or C size battery power supply. These really work great and it will only cost you about $5.00 not counting batteries. It works better than the cronographs I've used.

I'm the rangemaster at a range in Prescott, AZ. I've seen every make and model of chronograph known to man used here and you know which one everybody checks theirs against for accuracy??
My Oehler 35P. Hands down the best chronograph made. Ask any of the ammo manufacturers what they use. Oehler Rules

With my PACT I had the low voltage problem as well until I changed to a 6 V/4AH (that's right- 6V instead of 9V) block battery. Works great, even in lower temperatures.

Jim, did you find discrepancies in the readings of the different chronos ?

thanks for the help guys i have just ordered the CED! would have loved the ohler but for what i use it for it looks like the CED will do me just fine!

I'd like to make a comment about Oehler. If you should have a problem and this is rare, it is repaired free of charge(regardless of age), the people there are very knowledgeable and speak fluent English. And they don't send you to Radio Shack for parts.
I used a model 33 for about 25 years and it never had a problem of any kind.
Stepchild

Bartsche,

Good idea! But The CED 9V seems to last forever and required no project work on my part! If I still had the darn thing I'd try it! I actually don't think I was having voltage issues, more likely spotty results due to light angle/changes/clouds etc, it was just the most obvious variable to swap out when it was giving me flaky readings...

Roger

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jim White:
["My Oehler 35P. Hands down the best chronograph made." "Oehler Rules"
I like your recommendation and I love Prescott.
I will buy the Oehler and if I were younger I'd move to Prescott. Just what it needs another Californian.

Waitaminit,
There has'nt been to many really wide variations but the proof channel takes the question away. When you have a machine that checks its self I don't think it gets much better than that. An Oehler is not for everyone but I sure love mine and highly recommend them to anyone that wants the best. Jim

My circa 1987 Pact has been reading velocities low since I got the new spacer bar, sensors and holders. I thought about it for a while on how to calibrate a chronograph and except for checking it against another is all that I came up with.

So I called Pact today and was told that if the quartz clock is working then it's right on. I said that's not the whole answer. What about the rest of it? The guy seemed tired of these questions and told me to try the screens reversed!

So I called CED and got Jim on the phone. It seems I woke him up as there is a three hour difference from here to Az. He warmed up and must have got a coffee. Jim explained the whole thing to me and suggest how to set up screens right including details on every aspect of it.

My conclusion is that if I had read the long lost directions and followed them I might not have a problem. Jim was much too nice to say this out loud.

We went on to other topics like internal programs, barrel nodes, the Ladder Technique and terminal ballistics. Then I looked out the window and it was time to go hunting as a couple of hours had gone by.

I rate Jim up there with Ken Howell and Bill Davis when it comes to firearms.

Savage,

I had the same experience with Jim...He's a great guy. If you look at his bench tips you'll see some truly interesting and novel ideas that really make you think about what you're doing...

R

I use an Oehler 43 and a 35P both, and I've never used Jim's CED unit before but, I'm here to tell you I know the other two products he has, PressureTrace and RSI Shooting Lab are the most usefull, accurate and well thought out and designed tools of their type on the market, not to mention a top notch guy to back them up too! There's another bitchin one coming too, stay tuned...