Hey guys im new to the site and new to reloading. I have a remington 742 30-06 carbine that i would like to reload for. Im planning on using 165gr nosler partitions but not sure which powder to use. Does anyone have a good recipe for this gun ? thanks.

Some semi-autos present problems when loaded with powders that are slower in the burning range for the cartridge. This is because the slower powders (something like IMR 4350 in this instance) maintain a higher pressure further down the barrel where the gas port is located than do the slightly faster powders.

IMR-4895 is a good powder for the '06 in most semi-autos. It, or something near its burning speed like IMR or AA 4064, should work pretty well in your 742.

First off, you want to full length resize your brass and I understand that the timing on a 742 is kinda critical so you want to load for a moderate velocity. If you try for too much heat, the action can cycle too violently. If it were my rifle, I'd start at the beginning suggested load and work up until the rifle cycled reliably and call it happy.
I use 4350 for all my '06s but they are bolt guns. Perhaps a little quicker powder might be called for. Say, 4064 or even 4895.

Never loaded with the partitions but use 165 Hornadys and 50grs RE15, Partitons might require a bit less than 50grs since they tend to be a longer bullet in a given caliber. That being said, id give RE15 a try and always make sure you full length resize your cases, then make sure they chamber like a factory load would before you seat the bullet.

The Hornady manual has a Garand section. Those loads should be OK in your 742.

quote:

Originally posted by richyb:
Hey guys im new to the site and new to reloading. I have a remington 742 30-06 carbine that i would like to reload for. Im planning on using 165gr nosler partitions but not sure which powder to use. Does anyone have a good recipe for this gun ? thanks.

I use small base sizers on all autos, pumps and lever action rifles. H4831 powder and 165 grain partitions. Work up from start out of the lyman manual in 1/2 grain increments. You will quickly find the most accurate load.

I for one havent had to go with small base dies when loading for autos, and Ive loaded for more than just a few autos and pumps, full length resizing is all I ever needed to do. But Ill add, my Lee 06 die needed to be shaved a bit on the bottom since it wasnt resizing all the way, all is well now, Im confident my 06 shells will chamber into anything out there as far as factory rifles go.

I load for a lot of semi's and a few full auto's. Only one's I've had to use small base dies for is M1A.

Faster powder is the key. Took me a whole lotta rounds to figure that out with a BAR 30-06.

I have a remington 7400 30-06 and I use 165 grain hornady SST s 56.2 grains of IMR 4350 powder and remington magnum primers and they work great.With a semi though you always want to full length resize.I am new to reloading as well but am loading the same as my buddy was reloading them for me and he has been reloading for 35+ years and knows his stuff.I have fired his loads and my own like this for 7 years (300-400 rounds) and have never had a jam or problem.

quote:

Originally posted by colonel3006:
I have a remington 7400 30-06 and I use 165 grain hornady SST s 56.2 grains of IMR 4350 powder and remington magnum primers and they work great.With a semi though you always want to full length resize.I am new to reloading as well but am loading the same as my buddy was reloading them for me and he has been reloading for 35+ years and knows his stuff.I have fired his loads and my own like this for 7 years (300-400 rounds) and have never had a jam or problem.

My favorite load for that bullet is 50grs RE15, Rem brass, 210M or WLR primers. Very accurate!

Im debating between 4895 and 4350 for my powder. I was told the 4350 would be a little too slow? right now im shooting 150gr rem core lokt does anyone know waht powder would be in that shell ?

Forget 4350. It is not appropriate for an autoloader.
Instead the previously mentioned 4895 or 4064 should be used.

ok thanks i will forget about the 4350 for my semi.. How about w760? i have seen some decent looking velocities on some reloading pages for that one. would it be fine in a semi ? or would 4895 still be better ? thanks .

quote:

Originally posted by richyb:
ok thanks i will forget about the 4350 for my semi.. How about w760? i have seen some decent looking velocities on some reloading pages for that one. would it be fine in a semi ? or would 4895 still be better ? thanks .

I once loaded with 57grs IMR4350 and 150 Hornadys, just recently loaded 58grs H4350 & 165 Hor. for 2 brothers at work, they never had any issues with that powder, now I believe RE15 is the best for an auto, H4895 should work, but Im partial to RE15, its proved to be very accurate in just about any situation Ive tried it in. Oh, I asked a tech from Hodgdon if H4350 would work in an auto, he said no problem.

quote:

Originally posted by richyb:
ok thanks i will forget about the 4350 for my semi.. How about w760? i have seen some decent looking velocities on some reloading pages for that one. would it be fine in a semi ? or would 4895 still be better ? thanks .

No. Not Win. 760. It's too slow. Many reloading manuals have a list of the various powders in order of their burning speed. If you consult the list, you should have no trouble telling what is too slow.

I would also advise investing in reloading data that is specific to a semiauto such as the Hornady manual that gives loads tailored to the M1 Garand. Getting the manual is cheaper than breaking your gun.

I've reloaded for a Remington 742, an M1A, an M1 Garand, several AR-15 rifles and an SKS and didn't have to crimp or use small base dies for any of them.

I load for 2 Rem 742's in 30-06 and IMR4350 works great and grouped the best with both rifles using 150gr Hornady Interlocks. The 4064 worked well in my bolt guns but the 742's preferred IMR4350.

My experience is that timing is crucial to the long term operation of a semi-auto rifle...and timing depends in large part on what the gas pressure is at the port (because of the accelerated wear higher than designed-for operating pressures create).

Slow burning powders have higher pressures down the bore from the chamber than do fast buring ones, as a general rule.

In Garands, 4350 and 760 or anything slower are a definite no-no unless you are willing to also risk a bent operating rod. (New GI op rods are now becoming expensive and hard to find.)

I do not know what port pressure Remington 740, 742, and like series rifles are designed to operate with. I do know I have seen several Remington semi-autos in .30-06 which had been run on diets of 4350 or 4831 for several years as hunting rifles firing maybe 50 rounds per year and which then required bolt repairs to continue to work at all.

I had a 742 in ye olden days. I worked just fine with whatever powder I chose to use in my loads (in those days I would use either 4350 depending upon what the local Western Auto manager was stocking at the time) 760 worked ok as did Reloader 15. Although the 742 was/is a gas operated action--it does not work the same as an M1 or an M14 or even a Remington model 740 or 7400, so that may be why it was less finicky. The Remington society web site has details concerning the operating system of the 742 action.

Accuracy issues aside, it seems like you either loved or hated that rifle. There were a lot of problems reported concerning the magazines wearing out prematurely and/or failing to stay latched in the well and/or holding the bolt open after the last shot. Also a lot of 742s were plagued with the accuracy problems due to barrel whip. My particular 742 had all of the above. A good friend has one bought around the same time that has none of the above; he's still hunting every deer season with it loading with 4350--I don't know which one--and 180 gr. woodliegh (last season) soft points--Apparently if you got lucky with the 742 you had a great gun---but then I've never been known to be lucky..........but I never had any bolt problems after 700 to 1000 or so rounds through it.

thanks for the replys everyone. It definitly is not the most accurate rifle out there but i can make alot of noise in a hurry at running deer in the bush. I got it used about 10 years ago and the only shooting i do is maybe 5 rounds before the season to make sure its sighted in and then how ever many i blast off in a 2 week hunt. ( so maybe 10 rounds a year)

4895 under 2700 fps..
Ive turned alot of 742s in to 760s for guys that dont believe that.....

quote:

Originally posted by richyb:
It definitly is not the most accurate rifle out there but i can make alot of noise in a hurry at running deer in the bush.

I had a 742 in 308 Winchester that was quite accurate. In fact, I joined a shooting club and took it to my very first small time bench rest competition and took first place in "Heavy C" with it.

I put probably 3 or 4 thousand rounds through it mostly with IMR 4064 loads which may be too slow a powder but I was ignorant at the time. The bolt finally failed but, happily, was repaired at no charge by Remington.

quote:

Originally posted by Grumulkin:

quote:

Originally posted by richyb:
It definitly is not the most accurate rifle out there but i can make alot of noise in a hurry at running deer in the bush.

I had a 742 in 308 Winchester that was quite accurate. In fact, I joined a shooting club and took it to my very first small time bench rest competition and took first place in "Heavy C" with it.

I put probably 3 or 4 thousand rounds through it mostly with IMR 4064 loads which may be too slow a powder but I was ignorant at the time. The bolt finally failed but, happily, was repaired at no charge by Remington.

Um, 4064 is about the best burn rate to use for the 308. You got remington to fix a 742, thats hard to believe, they never fix those models, never. Theyre considered throw aways.

10-4 on the throw aways. Most gun shops won't even take a 742 in on trade.

I absolutely would never recommend a slow burning powder in a 742 rifle. It is just too slow and the port pressures would be too high. Pressures would be high during unlock causing the mechanism to cycle faster than designed, just adding to the wear and tear on the gun as the action cycles back and forth.


IMR 4895 ought to be your baseline powder. Based on my experience with the Garand, you should go no faster than IMR 3031 and no slower than IMR 4064. The three 4895 powders, IMR 4895, AA2495, H4895, ought to be the first choice. Accurate Arms told me that AA2520, a ball powder, grain for grain gives the same pressure curve as the extruded 4895 powders. So if you want to use a ball powder that is probably your best choice. I have shot N140 in gas guns, it works well. Expensive though.

A very interesting article on this series of rifles is to be found here. I believe Mr. Wisner has seen a lot of these rifles over the years. Mr Wisner provides warnings about excessive wear to the metal parts of these rifles.

http://wisnersinc.com/addition...ngton_7407427400.htm

I would recommend small base sizing. I recommend buying a Wilson type cartridge headspace gage and size to gage minimum.





Attempting to small base size a case lubricated with a spray on lube will guarantee a stuck case. I recommend RCBS water soluble or Imperial sizing wax.

These mechanism dates back to the 1950’s and I am of the opinion that using loads that push a 150 to 2800 or 2900 fps is too fast. I would recommend staying around 2700 fps.

I shoot 150’s in my 30-06 Garands, a easy load is a 150 anything, 47.5 grains IMR 4895, any case, CCI #34 primer.

I have shot tens of thousands of 168 Match, 47.0 grains IMR 4895, military case, CCI#34 primers in 30-06 Garands and in 30-06 bolt guns out to 300 yards. This is an exceedingly accurate load and with a 165 grain hunting bullet should be perfectly satisifactory.

A 165/168 would be as heavy as I would want to go in this mechanism.

I would never shoot 180’s, 190’s in a gas gun that does not have an adjustable gas system. I suspect these Remington rifles were designed around 150’s because that was what WWII and Korea War veterans would have been familiar using in their Garands.

It is your rifle but just think though, beat up the extractor, locking seats, where are you going to get new ones? This rifle is out of production, if you want to keep it running, be nice to it.

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
10-4 on the throw aways. Most gun shops won't even take a 742 in on trade.

Hey Beeman, Some folks will actually believe that.

Great rifles when properly cared for. By that meaning clean the Chamber through the Ejection Port - or - you will eventually have Extraction Problems. Place a Spent Case in the Chamber when cleaning the Barrel to capture most of the Residue and Trash getting flung from the Brush. But, you still need to clean the Chamber through the Ejection Port anyhow. Hoppe's makes a special "T-Handled" Cleaning Tool with a Nylon Shaft which works great for this task. And a 44cal or 45cal Brush wrapped with a Patch is just the right size for the Chamber to scrub it well.

Agree with H4895 and IMR-4064 being excellent for the Pressure Curve in these. Varget should do just as good.

Before you go out and buy small base dies, try your current dies, turn the resize die till it touches the shell holder, resize a few shells and chamber them, theyll fit just fine, unless youre using Lee dies, they tend to make them using minimal headspace, thats why I had to have my 06 Lee dies machined a bit. I use Hornady 308 dies, theyre not small base dies, when I loaded some shells for a guy at work they fit like a factory shell in his M100 Win.

Course youre shooting a 06 so use your 06 dies, hehehehe

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by wasbeeman:
10-4 on the throw aways. Most gun shops won't even take a 742 in on trade.

Hey Beeman, Some folks will actually believe that.

Great rifles when properly cared for.

If you're a box a year hunter, you can get a life time of service from a 742 BUT if you shoot up a couple of boxes every week or so, you're gonna have problems. AND if you are shooting reloads that push the envelope, you are gonna have problems very soon.
Now, I'm sure we'll hear from the crowd(all 3 of them) that has been shooting 180s at 3000fps with never a problem. That being the case, they would do well to burn a candle.

thanks guys ... i might only shoot 10 shells a year out of the gun. I have only ever shot 150's out of the gun but im gonna load up some of the 165's and dont plan on using 180's.

Time ago I reading in a shooting magazine about the ammo from WWII, Korean war, etc., in .30-06 caliber was loaded with IMR 4320. It's not true? It's not a good powder for semi rifle?.
Regards.

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
...if you are shooting reloads that push the envelope, you are gonna have problems very soon. ...

Also agree 180grs at 3kfps is not what anyone should aspire to with the 742.

Quite a few years ago I managed to Kill a LARGE Deer around Christmas in S.C. and took it to Holly Hill for processing. I'd cut it in half to simplify the handling after skinning and gutting.

Got to Holly Hill and told Old Jim I'd help him hang it on the meat hooks and he just smiled. Once he saw it, he changed his mind.

Meanwhile another pick-up rolls in with two guys. They had 3-Doe apiece that they had each Killed with one of the Semi-Auto Remington rifles(no idea which Model they were using). I mentioned it looked like they had a GREAT morning, their chests puffed out and the Bragging began. Nothing but 1-shot Kills, which I had no trouble believing

That was just before Old Jim said for me to hand him a leg from my Deer. Then as the second piece went onto the next meat hook, I heard one of the guys saying, "He's gonna get more meat off that Deer than all ours put together!!!"

I doubt that was true, but they sure did well with their Semi-Auto Remingtons
-----

Hey Hector, The IMR-4320 "might" have been used. The factories tend to(used to) Blend large quantities of their Bulk Powders to get a Burn Rate that will work within reason. That held down the Powder Inventory. It does seem they are much more picky about what goes into each Lot of Cartridges today.

I forgot to mention something, when I used to hunt with a 7400 6mm Rem, my dad had same caliber in a 742, I used 41.5grs IMR4350,(100grain Hornady) that was exactly 1 grain below the max in my Lymans manual(46th edition), both mine and Pa's 742 worked flawlessly with that load no to mention I was getting inch groups @100yds(5 shots) with mine, Pa's had opens. I did try a few loaded with 42grs and I could tell the bolt was coming back a bit faster, so I settled with 41.5grs. and never had one malfunction. I shot quite a few of those reloads thru that rifle and still loaded for it after I sold it to a hunting buddy in our group. If I was still loading for that rifle today Im not sure if id try another powder, afterall, Im partial to RE15 & Varget, but that IMR4350 worked so well I dont think id change a thing, that being said, dont tell me you cant use 4350 in an auto.

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:

Great rifles when properly cared for.

If you're a box a year hunter, you can get a life time of service from a 742 BUT if you shoot up a couple of boxes every week or so, you're gonna have problems. AND if you are shooting reloads that push the envelope, you are gonna have problems very soon.
Now, I'm sure we'll hear from the crowd(all 3 of them) that has been shooting 180s at 3000fps with never a problem. That being the case, they would do well to burn a candle.

Nice looking rifles, yes.

Accurate rifles, yes. At least mine was.

Great rifles? I'd have to say no due to a severe longevity problem. I got mine fixed at no charge by Remington because I bought it new, they still made them and I had shot it a BUNCH in the first couple years I had it. At several thousand rounds before it gave up the ghost, I was probably lucky.

Maybe Remington could still fix a 742 but I highly doubt it would be at no charge.

quote:

Time ago I reading in a shooting magazine about the ammo from WWII, Korean war, etc., in .30-06 caliber was loaded with IMR 4320. It's not true? It's not a good powder for semi rifle?.

I don't know the article and I have no idea about IMR 4320.

If you have IMR 4320 check the burn rate.

The military generally loaded all 30-06 ammunition to shoot in all of their weapons. However by the time you get to 1969 there were not many Garands in service and the 1919's were still in use. Their would be no reason to reject a slow burning lot of powder, inappropriate for use in a Garand, but OK in a 1919.

Also, what the military used was pressure barrel tested. I have some surplus IMR 4895 that required 4064 charge levels.

Considering I only have chronographs, I am sticking with my IMR 4895. I have shot IMR 4064, H4895, AA2520, IMR 3031, AA2495, N140, tried N135, Varget. I like 4895 the best.

quote:

Originally posted by SlamFire:

quote:

Time ago I reading in a shooting magazine about the ammo from WWII, Korean war, etc., in .30-06 caliber was loaded with IMR 4320. It's not true? It's not a good powder for semi rifle?.

I don't know the article and I have no idea about IMR 4320.

If you have IMR 4320 check the burn rate.

The military generally loaded all 30-06 ammunition to shoot in all of their weapons. However by the time you get to 1969 there were not many Garands in service and the 1919's were still in use. Their would be no reason to reject a slow burning lot of powder, inappropriate for use in a Garand, but OK in a 1919.

Also, what the military used was pressure barrel tested. I have some surplus IMR 4895 that required 4064 charge levels.

Considering I only have chronographs, I am sticking with my IMR 4895. I have shot IMR 4064, H4895, AA2520, IMR 3031, AA2495, N140, tried N135, Varget. I like 4895 the best.

What bullet weight did you shoot with the IMR 4895?

Two loads I've found to be extremely accurate and very reliable in a M1 Garand using both Sierra 168 grain MatchKing and Nosler 165 grain AccuBond bullets:

1. 46.5 grains H4895
2. 47.5 grains IMR4064

These loads also shoot very well in my bolt action .30-06.

Hope this helps,
Bill.

quote:

What bullet weight did you shoot with the IMR 4895?[

I prefer the IMR 4895 series of powders in my Garands. Accurate Arms AA2495 is a copy of IMR 4895 but stupidly they call it something different and confuse everyone. Accurate Arms told me it duplicated the 4895 pressure. When it cost less than IMR 4895 I shot at least five kegs of the stuff through M1’s and M1a’s. I could not tell any difference on target or over the screens. I am shooting H4895 in my M1a’s, I have tried AA2520, a ball powder. Accurate Arms told me grain for grain it also duplicates the IMR 4895 pressure curve. It is a lot denser than the stick powders and a lot messier. Leaves a lot more residue in the gas system; still it shoots well. I cannot say that the better throw uniformity you get with a ball powder really means anything on paper.

I shot the 168 out to 600 yards with great success but when the 175 SMK’s came out I used those at 500 and 600 yards. I shot thousands of 174 FMJ’s at 200 yards but in rifle matches, I wanted the better 168’s at 300 yards. I would not use the old military 174’s at long range as I don’t trust them. Too many unexplained eights. I am still shooting 168’s at local 100 and 200 reduced matches. I still drag the old thunder stick out at least once a year, just for the fun. Garands are a lot harder to shoot well than M1a’s. Neither of these rifles are as easy as match rifles with peeps, so I am not shooting them as much as I used to. Once you get your Distinguished the urge to shoot service rifles sort of tapers off. About the time your eyesight tapers off.

My standard load out to 300 yards is a 168 grain Nolser/Sierra/Hornday, 47.0 grains IMR 4895, military cases, CCI #34.

At long range I use the 175 SMK with the same powder charge.

I full length resize in a small base die, I set up my dies with Wilson type case gages and size to gage minimum. I ream all primer pockets to depth to ensure there are no high primers, I use CCI #34’s as they are the least sensitive US primer I can buy, you never want to use Federals or the “most sensitive” primer in a Garand/M1a. Federals are the most slamfiring primer used in a Garand. You should never attempt to seat a bullet to the lands in a Garand, just seat to magazine depth or less. I use 3.30” or less. Less is fine as 168’s can skip a country mile and still shoot well.

Take all the bench rest techniques you heard of and throw them in a trash can when reloading for gas guns. Neck reaming, neck sizing, partial neck sizing, tight cartridge to chamber fit are very, very bad ideas in gas guns.In any mechanism with a free floating firing pin, tight cases can give you an out of battery slamfire. This M1 carbine fired out of battery, with Federal ammo. http://www.thegunzone.com/ij-m1carbine_kb.html#nb2 Lots of receiver heels have been blown off Garands due to a combination of sensitive primers and tight cases. Tight cases also cause function issues, failure to feed and believe or not, failure to extract. You always want the case smaller than the chamber, I push my case shoulders back about .003” and get great case life.

I decided not to use more than 48.0 grs IMR 4064 with a 168 in a Garand. Generally it just takes one grain more of 4064 to get the same velocity as 4895. I am not going to use 49.0 even the velocities look good.


M1 Garand Douglas Barrel 1:10 twist


168 Sierra Match 47.0 grs AA2495 wtd WLR FC Cases OAL 3.30"
5 May 00 T = 82 ° F

Ave Vel = 2632
Std Dev = 16
ES = 50
Low = 2616
High = 2666
N = 10

168 gr Sierra Match 47.0 AA2520 WWII cases WLR OAL 3.30"
5 May 00 T = 82 ° F

Ave Vel = 2658
Std Dev = 35
ES = 85
Low = 2612
High = 2697
N = 5

168 gr Sierra Match 48.0 IMR 4064 wtd LC66NM WLR OAL 3.30"
5 May 00 T = 82 ° F

Ave Vel = 2594
Std Dev = 18
ES = 38
Low = 2575
High = 2613
N = 5


168 gr Sierra Match 49.0 wtd IMR 4064 LC66NM WLR OAL 3.30"
5 May 00 T = 82 ° F

Ave Vel = 2669
Std Dev = 27
ES = 65
Low = 2651
High = 2716
N = 5

175 Sierra Match 47.0 grs AA2495 wtd CCI 34 R-P Cases OAL 3.30"
5 May 00 T = 82 ° F

Ave Vel = 2631
Std Dev = 8
ES = 23
Low = 2617
High = 2640
N = 5










200 yard prone slow fire on the 5V target