I have been reading about the whole moly process and it is something I would like to try but I do have a few questions. I plan on getting a new rifle here in the next few weeks(Weatherby SBGM in 25-06) should I shoot normal jacketed rounds first or is it ok to moly the barrel and shoot moly bullets out of the box? I have seen that Nosler has lubalox bullets, same as moly but with a fancy trademarked name? Does anyone have any other comments or general info on this subject?

Thanks

I have "heard" it is better to break in a new barrel with non-moly coated bullets, then switch to moly if you like. Moly coated bullets, using the same bullet and powder charge will reduce your velocity. I went with the moly craze when it became popular to reduce copper fouling, and it does reduce copper fouling. The jury is still out whether copper fouling or moly fouling is better. I have found, from a freind, that "Top Engine Cleaner" that can be purchased in most auto parts stores is a good agent for removing moly from the inside of your barrel.

If I had to do it all again, I would skip the moly coated bullets.

Hope this info helps.

Don

I would either never shoot anything but moly or never shoot ANY moly at all.

Moly and non moly don't mix.

My own moly code:
1) 22-250 firing 200 rounds a day in the desert at varmints: good candidate for moly.
2) 30-06 firing 5 rounds a year in the rain forest at deer: bad candidate for molly.
3) Spray moly fumes cause brain damage, pay for factory moly coated bullets.
4) I can use moly bore paste to burnish the bore and not have to wait 50 rounds for the barrel to settle in.
5) I have only two rifles that get moly: a .223 single shot and a .257 Roberts Ackley Improved.
6) Moly rifles go 10 rounds and want a nitro solvent cleaning, non moly rifles go 10 rounds and want a nitro solvent cleaning AND a copper solvent cleaning.
7) I can neutralize the acid formed when moly gets too hot at the end of the day with 5 drops of water saturated with baking soda on a patch and left in the bore for a minute. If I don't, and I leave my rifle in the car overnight, there will be bright red streaks in the bore. Oil offers no protection to this phenomena.
8) Bores that are too rough for moly to work are also so rough that copper fouling will be too fast without moly. Bores that are so smooth, that copper cleaning is very easy, also work very well WITH moly. "To moly or not to moly" in a barrel is not as important as the words, "hand lapped at the factory".

[ 03-26-2003, 11:04: Message edited by: Clark ]

Clark,

Have you ever used plain distilled water and let it dribble down the barrel, collect it and do a pH test?

Clark,
Where did you get that moly? I too would be interested in a PH test. Maybe put a little distilled water in the bore and swish it around before you test it.

PS: You know copper fouling looks red in the bore.

[ 03-26-2003, 20:11: Message edited by: BECoole ]

The color of copper is more golden and this is more of a scarlet red.

I use Lyman moly bore paste to burnish the bore and Berger moly bullets.

Gary Coffman of rec.crafts.metalworking posted to me:

>You're getting sulphate residue in the bore from the thermal disassociation
and partial combustion of the MoS2 when firing. The moisture in the air
combines with that to form sulphuric acid (H2SO4, battery acid). That's
corroding your bore.

>Like the chloride residues from corrosive priming compound, flushing
the barrel immediately after firing with boiling water will remove the
residue and eliminate this problem. Or you could simply quit using
the MoS2 in the bore.

>Gary

[ 03-26-2003, 21:53: Message edited by: Clark ]

To Clark.
This moly h2so4 thing sounds interesting.. Is this a problem with any rifle or just yours and a few others.
H2SO4 is not something to be taken lightly in a rifles bore ... I think....

Oh lord, here we go again...the armchair Nobel peace prize chemists and metallurgists are going to come out of the woodwork to weigh in on Moly Voodoo. I've used Moly on my two main Varmint rifles for six years and I never do any Antacid treatments, and the bores just look peachy. One is a factory Ruger in 22-250 tuned by John Lewis and the other is a Cooper VE21 in 223.

Actually, I am a chemist. I have also just been accepted to graduate school.

I would like to see a pH test.

Like Manuel says, on Fawlty Towers.. "I know noothing Mr. Fawlty".
So I am happy to hear that not everybody has a problem with H2SO4 in the bore, when shooting Moly bullets. I shoot moly bullets only in my .270win. and during a hunt for red deer in Scotland the poor thing was drowned on a regular basis. I never detected any red streaks in it.
I have shot moly in that rifle, since it was broken in. But in case I should wish to switch bac to standard bullets...Does anyone know if there are problems connected to switching back to standard bullets or can it be done witout loss of performance. Just in case..

Clark,
The only thing I see different between what you are doing and "generally accepted Moly practices" is the Lyman Moly Bore Paste. There is no need for that. I would quit using it. If you clean with Kroil and JB (you shouldn't use anything else) there is no need to further season the bore after the first 30 or so shots.

(PS if you think 30 shots is alot,try completely cleaning your bore with an electronic cleaner and see how long it takes conventional bullets to settle in!)

After my short aquaintance with moly, I did find that Goop hand cleaner will remove it from your bore quite well.

Becoole,

I do use the JB/Kroil/shooters choice combo..however, I have fallen in love with Wipeout....I wonder if wipeout is too agressive, removing too much moly?

MOLY
BE carefull not to assume that the Ph. of the distilled H2O is neutral .Ph. testing with any degree of accuacy is very tricky ! You must use very good equipment with certified buffer solutions . Ultimatly you will only know the Ph. of a solution/compond which will be of little value .
If you think the H2so4 is bad: test it for the nitric acid . Also the more you dilute sulfuric acid the more corrosive it gets .
If you add H2o to H2So4 you will get an exothermic reaction .

BK

I must be living in blissful ignorance, having encountered none of the oft-mentioned problems with moly, save one. Yes, it takes a few shots when changing to or from moly. BFD.

I'm encouraged to discover I share this forum with very well-read folks whose scientific knowledge FAR exceeds my grasp of the matter.

A jillion mollied rounds later, moly still does what I want it to do and nothing else despite some of the more dire warnings. It lets me shoot accurately longer, and that's all I demand of it. I still clean diligently (Marine Corps!) and suffer not much at all for it.

It's not that skeery.

Redial

Clark:

quote:

---

If I don't, and I leave my rifle in the car overnight, there will be bright red streaks in the bore. Oil offers no protection to this phenomena.

---

Couple of questions:
1) How do you detect the red streaks, are they visible near the muzzle or are you using a bore scope?
2) Does this show up in SS barrel?

Reason I ask is that I have used moly in my target rifle (SS 30-06 lapped barrel) and have never experienced the loss of accuracy after cleaning thoroughly. I have used Sweet's & Hopes Bench Rest until no copper residue on patches. Most recently, have gone to the Hopes BR to remove nitro fowling, then JB to get most of copper, then more Hopes BR until no copper. I have used the moly paste after cleaning for some time, now. Never noticed any red streaks, but never let it sit overnight without at least starting the cleaning process.

My hunting rifle is a factory Win mod 70 which I started using moly in several years ago and follow same cleaning proceedure, but it does sometimes sit in pickup overnight (never longer) without cleaning. Bbl is not SS on this rifle, have never noticed any red in bore, but must admit that I usually don't look too closely before cleaning other than a casual glance at the muzzle. Will pay closer attention next time.

If I had it to do over again, don't think I'd use moly on the hunting rifle again, but have not had any first round accuracy problems after thorough cleaning with this rifle either. I do use the moly paste that I mix from a moly bearing oil and moly grease as preservative.

Regards,
hm

Redial:

quote:

---

I must be living in blissful ignorance, having encountered none of the oft-mentioned problems with moly, save one. Yes, it takes a few shots when changing to or from moly. BFD.

---

In your experience, what's "a few" rounds.

Reason I ask is I'm having accuracy problems with a 300 Win Mag with a long throat. Tried many powders, 200 gr. bullets, OAL, primers, etc. This rifle has never had moly in bore, but plan to try some 180 gr. failsafes in it and wonder what to expect. Have never swithced back & forth from moly to naked bullets.

Regards,
hm

hm1996, a few in this case is as few as three or as many as a dozen, in my rifles.

I've found that bullets I've mollied "adjust" more quickly than do factory mollied bullets, maybe because my plating is thicker, I dunno.

Yesterday morning for example, I shot a factory Savage .223 heavy barrel a friend sent me. The barrel had seen JB and Shooter's Choice in prep and it was virginally clean (like that?). I shot moly first and it exhibited typical rough barrel behavior - it required very little seasoning to shoot its best. The first three shots at 50 yards (to get on paper) were touching, as were the next two 5-shot groups at 100.

Substituting only a different ammo, the next three "naked" opened to 1.25", then shot the next five touching, apparently having transitioned happily to the non-moly.

If you're throat is very long, you may be happy to hear that my best groups with moly bullets often come when seated WAY off the rifling. Like 50 thou off!

Moly has some drawbacks in hunting rifles, since I'm guessing your 300 is a hunter. It's only a real advantage if you shoot long strings between cleanings, in my experience.

HTH

Redial

Redial:
Your assumption is correct, my 300 WM is a factory post 64 Mod. 70 sporter. I agree that moly is of no real benefit in a hunting rifle.

This rifle, if I load to max. magazine length has .170" bullet jump to lands and is super finicky. Have been trying to work up a load w/200 gr. game kings and then switch to nos. partions once/if I find something that will shoot. Have had only two five shot groups so far that are moa and these did not seem too repeatable.

Picked up a can of RL22 at a gun show last week and will try that if the wind ever slacks up. Also wanted to try the factory failsafes to use as a pressure guideline and was wondering how hard it was going to be to transition back to naked bullets after shooting the failsafes.

Thanks for the benefit of your experience in this regard.

Regards,
hm