Sorry! I couldn't resist!

What do these two bullets have in common?
30 caliber Lehigh Bullets 148 grain Sub Sonic hollow point bullet and 20 grain .17 caliber Dogtown hollow point bullets?


Why this of course. . .A 168 grain projectile with a 20 grain "spreader" included in that weight.


Looking forward to trying these in my suppressed 308 Savage!

I sure wouldn't want to be standing in front of that combination!

What is the practical application of that combination? It doesn't look like a cheap load.

You get better bullet expansion at Sub Sonic velocity. Most bullets just punch a hole at low velocity.

Interesting? but would it do anything better than say an "old fashioned" cup and core bullet at 1/5 cost?

Not bagging on you or anyone. Just curious.

What do you need sub-sonic loads for? Those look a little expensive for shooting rats in the hen house.

All I can say is I wanted to try them! Suppressed and hogs sound like FUN!

I was looking at those too, Rusty. I'm anxious to see what you think after plugging a hog! I was worried about concentricity and that much weight forward in the nose.

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
All I can say is I wanted to try them! Suppressed and hogs sound like FUN!

Hogs,,, I didn't even think about hogs. Very interesting. Suppressed, I would think it would be pretty quiet.

Rusty,
You will really like what those Lehigh bullets do to deer.
I have used about 200 of them since discovering them a couple of years back for my suppressed 300Whisper.
To answer a prior question, "regular" bullets will not expand, I have tried filing off the soft point on a Sierra 220-nope! soft lead-nope.
These Lehigh open up great and shed their petals-at most I recover one petal still attached.
For no other reason but I can, I have purchased some Outlaw State subsonic 308 bullets to reload.
They got great reviews and will have to test them out this upcoming deer season.
Given that we are overrun with deer here and my limit is 6 but damage stamps are given out like Halloween candy so more is not a problem.

If you are using a 300-221/Whisper in a bolt subsonic suppressed and have problems finding a good powder drop me a line. I am currently using Lil'Gun with great success-keeping velocity to 1050.

For those who never shoot suppressed let me say give it a try if you are in any kind of even lightly populated area. The loudest sound is the firing pin falling and a soft wooosh.
I have had deer fall and the surrounding ones never look up.
Great for culling the herds.

Gary

Currently the best results on game with subsonic rifle bullets are usually with long bullets which do not drill a hole straight through the animal. I have used the Sierra 220 RN for a couple years on small Texas deer and hogs with excellent results. These bullets launched at around 1000-1100 fps in a 1:10" barrel will turn broadside in an animal and create an awesome wound. They kill as well or better than a .44 Magnum round with far less recoil or noise. For those who want to use a suppressed round or a low-noise cartridge (I use a .32-20) an expanding bullet isn't needed. That does not mean that an expanding bullet is not a good idea.



.

Im jealous,we have a minimum of 2,450fps.jc

gab, TX,
Thanks for the input. I have loaded these for my suppressed Savage 308 Win. 10 grain of trail boss.

Hopefully I can get to the range this weekend and "experiment" with these.
What would consider the best working "range" for these subsonic loads?

I keep my shots to 150 yards.
If you run a ballistic table on them at subsonic speed you will see they drop like a rock and getting an accurate range is critical.
For example, using a sierra 240 hpbt(a very efficient projectile with high BC) with a MV of 1050 fps and sighted in for 100 yards you get a 11.76 inch drop at 150 yards, 21" at 175 and 32.5" at 200 yards.
Just miscalculating 25 yards from 125 instead of 150 will put you off by 8 inches.

Gary

My longest shots are under 100 yards so drop isn't an issue for me. But there are plenty of folks in AR forums shooting sub-sonic over 200 yards with great success. With modern range finders, you shouldn't be 5 yards off in your range extimate, and mil-dot reticles solve the drop issue. Think of it as akin to shooting at 600-800 yards with an ultramagnum, same process.....


.

Tx,

Not to be cantankerous but where I live the deer are so numerous and troublesome that my limit without any damage stamps to add in is 6 deer.
I have no reason to stretch my shots. If it is not within 125 I just wait and like the proverbial bus or subway train, another will be along shortly.
As most of us are, I am more concerned with a quick clean kill and not so much in how far I can shoot it.
Also, I am not getting any younger and dragging out a dead deer more than a couple of hundred yards has certainly lost it's appeal to me. :-))

Gary

Rusty, if I wanted some expansion at subsonic velocities I would take a look at the Hawk 200gr., 30 cal bullet with the .025jacket.

If any 30 cal bullet will give expansion at subsonic velocities this one might.

I would test it for stability before shooting it through my suppressor for sure.

Just a couple of weeks ago I saw a fella have a baffle strike with a 308 and blast the "guts" out of his suppressor. I was sitting right next to him, spotting for him when it happened...

NE 450,

Not meaning to hijack this thread but could you give more details on baffle strike--I would like to avoid this at all cost and am interested to find out what happened, ie, load and bullet combo, etc.

Thanks,

Gary

Have seen moderators destroyed because the mod got loose on the thread(crawling through heather when stalking for example)or the thread was not cut concentric to the rifling. A bullet would have to be way off a safe load to de-stabilize so quick to strike the baffles.jmo.jc

gab

I think this is how it happened.

I fired a few rounds out of the rifle. It was an AR in 308. I was shooting and hitting 16" steel gongs at 400 and 500 yards.

After I fired my last shot, we let the gun cool, and I reached up and gave the suppresser a quick twist. It was a little loose and I tightened it up.
It was a direct thread to the barrel.

The other fella fired several rounds trying to hit the plates, and then BOING, parts went 75 yards or so down range.

I think the suppressor loosened up and sagged enough to cause a baffle strike...

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
gab

I think this is how it happened.

I fired a few rounds out of the rifle. It was an AR in 308. I was shooting and hitting 16" steel gongs at 400 and 500 yards

After I fired my last shot, we let the gun cool, and I reached up and gave the suppresser a quick twist. It was a little loose and I tightened it up.
It was a direct thread to the barrel.

The other fella fired several rounds trying to hit the plates, and then BOING, parts went 75 yards or so down range.



I think the suppressor loosened up and sagged enough to cause a baffle strike...

+1 jc

quote:

Sorry! I couldn't resist!

Funny how you would be interested in those "NonCons"! LOL.........

I know a little bit about those! JD is working close with David to develop many of these for the Sub-Sonic Whispers.

Michael

Michael,
How many bullet companies do you have an interest in?

Rusty

I love bullets, I am always "interested" in bullets! LOL....... So therefore always interested in all bullet companies!

You know, the Bullet does All The heavy Lifting!

Lehigh was making my bullets before for the various .500s. Problem was I just did not have enough communications with Lehigh to be able to get better bullets made. In fact, there was no communications at all! So it was hard to get things done. Last special order of bullets I got took over 6 months, that was just not acceptable to me.

Dan at CEB and John at North Fork, far different story.

All my rifles are built by SSK Industries, JD Jones and Company. JD is the driving force behind these Sub Sonic bullets, for the various Whispers. Many of the Whispers are used in Ohio and Pennsylvania for "Deer Control" in urban type settings. As you guys have already mentioned and we all know, conventional bullets at Sub Sonic do not do anything, no expansion, nothing. Even very soft bullets. Therefore you see the slits cut in the sides of the brass HPs that David has been working on, for JD. So I know a little bit about these, why, what and how because of JD. In fact, spoke with JD just this morning. Not about bullets, about some other things he and I are working on. Always a project.

Michael

Interesting.

So, which companies making bullets or groups do you own an interest in or have an advisory capacity or board position.

Gent I shoot with on a regular basis at range we are members, showed me a bullet he'd altered one day. He owns an 1885 Winchester action rifle chambered in 348 Win. Odd ball O.D. on its bullets and only available in flat nose, since it was originally chambered only in a tube fed lever action rifle.

He'd always wanted to shoot a pointed bullet in his .348 1885, so he'd drilled out the lead part of his flat nosed bullet and inserted a .22 cal bullet, such as you'd use in a 22-250 or .223, in the hole. Odd shape to the oglive of his bullet creation. However, at 100 yards he shot some pretty decent groups with his creation. Guess this deer season, he may try out this bullet. This reminds me to ask him about it next time I see him.

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
Interesting.

So, which companies making bullets or groups do you own an interest in or have an advisory capacity or board position.

Rusty

I sure hate to disappoint you, but I do not own, have no $$ interest, own ZERO stock in any sort of bullet company. Have never owned, have never had a $$ interest, and have never owned any stock in any bullet company ever. And do not intend to do so, and have no plan of any future in the bullet business and don't want to be in the bullet business.

I am not on the "Board" of ANY bullet company, serve in no advisory capacity to ANY bullet company, and have no position, on the Board, or even sweeping the floor of any bullet company.

But I can tell you this, when I speak about Bullets--Most Listen!

Michael

quote:

But I can tell you this, when I speak about Bullets--Most Listen!

Glad you have a following!

Without a doubt Rusty, I am in damn fine company, the best, the brightest, and most experienced, that I keep company with, it is I who am honored. I am not one for keeping company with idiots! I find it a waste of time.

I am sorry to bust your bubble on my alleged ties to some bullet company, I know you must be disappointed, just when you thought you had it figured! Too bad!

Michael

You haven't burst any bubbles here.

jc

Rusty,

To me, it's a facinating design, and I appreciate you sharing it with us.

I'm really looking forward to your field results, both on paper, and on some of those Texas pigs.