Are the TSX bullets really that much more accurate than the Nosler Partitions? I mainly shoot 300 Win Mag, 300 RUM, 375 H&H and 416 Rem Mag.

Yes

I would prefer to shoot the Nosler Partitions in 30-06 and 300 win and have tried, but do not want to give up the accuracy the TSX's provide.

Get together with a buddy or two and split a box and find out for yourself. Your gun will tell you the answer...not someone on this forum!

I would worry far more about terminal performance than precise accuracy for HUNTING bullets.

I keep meeting people at the range who choose one bullet over another because of a 1/4" difference in group size at 100yds.

I don't see a whole bunch of difference in cost between Nosler partitions $24 for 50 versus $27 for 50 Barnes XLC's


AllanD

My only experience with the TSX is in my 338-06. It is the most accurate bullet I have tried and I have tried the plain X, the XLC, Partition's, Ballistic Tip's, Hornady's, Speer's and Woodleigh's in a myriad of weights. It also develops the most energy from my rifle and, of course, terminal performance has been exemplary as well. I am now exploring its potential in my other rifles. My goal, one band of bullet for all calibers.

The 140 grain TSX shoots great in my 7 Mag but the 260 grain Partition shoots one hole with my 375 H&H. Every gun is different, that's what makes load development so much fun.

Speaking of "LOAD DEVELOPMENT" I sure enjoy that mini movie in your ID!!!

I have had good luck with XLC (130gr-.270 and 225gr- .338) but have yet to try the TSX. Very true about every gun is different so I agree its good advice to try yours and find out. It has been my experience that x bullets in general are very "finicky" during load development and tend to shoot better out of rifles that have had the throat lengthened just a bit.

IV

For accuracy, only your rifle will tell. For terminal performance, I much prefer the TSX.

Also, the TSX has been easier to find an accurate load for than the XLC or the plain X in the 5 calibers I load them in.

I have already experienced a failure with a TSX, so I will stay with the Noslers, they have served me well for 50 or so years...

It seems to me a Barnes bullet when it works is fantastic, but it seems to fail miserably on ocassion, I can't live with that trade off..I like my dogs, horses and wimmen, consistant more than anything else!

quote:

Originally posted by kraky:
Get together with a buddy or two and split a box and find out for yourself. Your gun will tell you the answer...not someone on this forum!

This is correct, as all rifles are individuals.

.

Boxhead, I was wondering if you would share your load info for the 338-06. I have so far only shot the 225g. TSX in my gun, but not extensively.

and for this forum, my gun never complains about either the 210 or the 225 partitions

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:

I have already experienced a failure with a TSX, so I will stay with the Noslers, they have served me well for 50 or so years...

Details please


Without guns we are subjects, with guns we are citizens

Alf,
Nothing very complicated..My grandson shot a mule deer in the shoulder at 40 yards with a 165 gr. TSX from my .308 Mauser and the deer got away...I tracked it for about a mile and a half and lost his track when he joined up with a bunch of does in the Cianosa brush...I saw the hit with my binocs and it was perfect behind the shoulder...Thats about all I can tell you about it, but it soured me..I know any bullet can fail, and they may be the best bullet in the world, but I probably won't use them anymore, I am not a forgiving soul to bullet failure...

Add to that I have seen Barnes X bullets fail in the past on several ocassions as have many folks I know. Like I said when the work they are the best, when they fail the fail miserably..

For those who feel otherwise then they are the bullet you should use...

Then was it a complete pass thru without expansion? At close ranges I aim for the shoulder blades and at long range aim for a heart/lung. At the longer ranges the velocity is less and will allow proper expansion, but at 40 yards with no bones being hit, it is possible it went through without having time for expansion.

Too bad - sorry to hear it



Without guns we are subjects, with guns we are citizens

With a hole thru both lungs it would of dropped within a 1/4 mile. But I am curious, what do you consider a failure?

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Alf,
Nothing very complicated..My grandson shot a mule deer in the shoulder at 40 yards with a 165 gr. TSX from my .308 Mauser and the deer got away...I tracked it for about a mile and a half and lost his track when he joined up with a bunch of does in the Cianosa brush...I saw the hit with my binocs and it was perfect behind the shoulder...Thats about all I can tell you about it, but it soured me..I know any bullet can fail, and they may be the best bullet in the world, but I probably won't use them anymore, I am not a forgiving soul to bullet failure...

Add to that I have seen Barnes X bullets fail in the past on several ocassions as have many folks I know. Like I said when the work they are the best, when they fail the fail miserably..

For those who feel otherwise then they are the bullet you should use...

Ray,I use Barnes X bullets at close range,they pencil trough,you have to hit bone to get the game down,(which bone?)trying to get a "shoot"caribou with 4 feet of snow,I had my lession,no way I will use Barnes-X bullets or their subtitutes bullets(copper) on a game at close range,furthermore shooting at "longer range"the real thing is to make sure to get "bones",at longer ranges proper expansion,I prefer not using them,not that good a shooter with Barnes X bullets(accuracy) etc... I think they are good for dangerous game at close range,Ray you hunt those game not using those bullets, I think that mean something...

All of my loads for my 338-06 utilize VV-N550 powder. This includes the 210 gr X and Partition and the 225 gr XLC and Partition. I have had great results from this powder, generally when it is well compressed, in the 308 Win, 35 Whelen and 9.3x62 as well. I have used the 210 gr Partition at 2800 fps on elk and nilgai with perfect results. This past season I tried the 185 TSX and flattened an old, large bodied 5x6 elk like I have never seen at a lasered 270 yards. Start with 61 grs of 550 with the 185 gr TSX and work up. Case life at my maximum has been fine. 300 Win Mag power and trajectory in a fairly mild round. Good stuff.

.

If I could only use "solid" bullets for the rest of my life I don't think I would have any regrets. I do realize this debate will never be finalized but give me a little bit of expansion or none at all but very deep or total penetration and I'll be happy. The "X" Bullets were tailored made for me.

All bullets, I don't care who makes them are designed to work within certain perimeters. If the bullet you are using strikes the animal and is outside those limitations of design, then you will most likely suffer a "Terminal Ballistics Failure"

It can happen to most any bullets from the most fragile to the toughest Big game solid. If you step outside the envelope the bullet will not function as it was designed.

There are a lot of good bullets out there. Your confidence in the bullet you are using means a great deal to how well you perform in the field.

I have been using Nosler Partitions bullets since the mid 1950s. In all that time, I have never experienced a "Terminal ballistics Failure" of a Nosler Partition.

I have used them in 257 Roberts, 257 Wby, 300 Wby, 300 Apex, 30-06, 375 H&H. They aren't a "Super, do it all Bullet". They will however do what they say they will do every time, when employed within their design range.

You should choose a bullet appropriate for the game you are hunting! You should use a bullet you have confidence in.

Most importantly, you should put the bullet on the target.
As someone once said, "Gunnery, Gunnery! Hit the target! All else is Twaddle!"

Just my opine!

I have used Barnes bullets with good results, but I have read on several occasions of them failing to expand. I would think, however, that would happen more at long range/low velocity than at close range/high velocity situations. The high velocity should make them expand faster-not slower. I don't understand how they can fail to open at high speed and not at low. Can anyone give any logic to this? I prefer the Noslers.

Someone said at close range (higher velocity) they pencil through and at longer range (lower velocity) they expand. Sorry, but that is not quite right. Closer range = higher velocity = more/rapid expanson = most likely less penetration. Longer range = lower velocity = less/slower expansion = sometimes more penetration. Barnes .308 diameter bullets made for us (tougher ones are made available to ammo manufacturers) are designed to keep their petals up to 2600fps no matter what anatomy they hit. My guess is this close range 'penciling through' that some talk about is really a case where the bullets lose their petals at high velocity and the remaining rear portion of the bullet now shaped like a cylinder (not a mushroom) makes a small exit hole which I do not consider a failure.

Someone else commented that holes through the lungs (I think they were refering to pencil sized) will put a Deer down within 400yrds. I don't believe that either.

BTW, I am a fan of shoulder shots, lung shots, Partitions, Barnes, and SST's. I believe that each has its place. On a trophy hunt and/or dense cover with bad tracking conditions, I want to break a shoulder or spine if the shot is presented. On a meat hunt and/or sparse cover with great tracking conditions, I try very hard for only the lungs. On Elk I would never use less than the partition or the x-types since I am a fan of two holes. On Deer I prefer quicker expanding SST which I still get exits with.

Deke.

I had a 180 gr. TSX pass through a goat last fall and fail to expand. It was 100yds and perfectly broadside, It ran 20-250 yds and laid down and dies but the hole on both sides was about the dia. of a pencil. This was with a 300WM

In my opinnion, what happens with a Barnes X is on ocassion the rib or shoulder is hit a glancing blow and that pinches the hollow point shut, and bullet failure is caused...Just my opine...

As to a solid in the lungs of a deer, I have seen them and antelope go as far as two miles and more if pushed,so they 1/4 mile stuff is just not fact in every case..

I believe big bore bullets in solids work fine on everything even plainsgame and especially if they are a flat nose solid...

Small bore 30 cal. and under solids are a poor choice on game of any kind and yes I have shot an awful lot of plainsgame with solids on cull hunts in Africa using both...

Solids actually work better on big bruteish animals like Buffalo and Hippo than they do on high strung game like Whitetail deer for instance....

The TSX did fail on me, and regardless of the range, that is not acceptable to me and I certainly don't buy off that it will expand at long range and not at short range, rather the opposite is true and if your experience are otherwise then thats just one of those things that happens with bullets...

I also realize that I might shoot another 1000 head of game and not have a TSX failure, but I know of many failures with Barnes X bullets as I get all the gossip in my business on that sort of stuff...Funny thing is I have no knowledge or heard of a Barnes X failing on Cape Buffalo or the larger animals, only on small stuff...

A very well known and knowledgable gun writer told me the Barnes X was the finest bullet yet devised, but that Barnes' quality control had gone to hell because of the rate of production and heavy sales...??????????

Bottom line is if someone likes them then that is the bullet THEY should use...

I try all bullets and shoot a lot of game with them before I make a final judgement on them, I don't take anything for granite and I will probably try the TSX bullets on big stuff and probably some more plainsgame as one animal or even a half a dozen doesn't tell one much about a bullet..but if one fails I sure don't mind telling anyone, and if they never fail I will tell that also...

The one factor I have noticed is I try them all and I keep coming back to Nosler, but I have found Northfork and Woodleigh to be as good as Noslers in every respect...I have found Barnes X excellent Cape Buffalo bullets...

I like and exit hole on everything I shoot.

I believe that folks who shoot barnes and Partitions have something in common.

They both want a bullet that will expand and deliver shock as well as burn off their nose and penetrate if the going gets rough.

Partitions always do both.

Barnes almost always do both.

But I think, on occasions, Barnes only penetrate.

Atkinson and Soda,

I agree with you both. I do not think the Barnes is necessary or even the best choice on Deer on down in the spitzer type bullets. I do like the Barnes on Elk and bigger/tougher though since I know they give me best penetration and will most likely open up just fine. The Partition types are the most guaranteed to open up and penetrate (front 1/2 will undoubtedly open or disentigrate and the back 1/2 not disentigrate with its locked design).

Interesting thought on the nose becoming pinched.... If that cavity closes I would think true pencil through effect.

Deke.

(may be trying the 150XFN on Deer/Antelope in my 3030AI this year since it has a nose that has thinner metal and a big hollow point to open up on lighter game)

Very interesting and as I said in my original post, I would prefer to shoot Nosler partitions but hate to give up the accuracy I am getting.

I think I will try harder to find an accurate load in my 270 and 30-06, perhaps an Accubond, but will stick with the TSX in 300 and 338.



Without guns we are subjects, with guns we are citizens

quote:

Originally posted by woods:
At the longer ranges the velocity is less and will allow proper expansion, but at 40 yards with no bones being hit, it is possible it went through without having time for expansion.

I don't buy this explaination: "it is possible it went through without having time for expansion."

That just seems wrong to me.

quote:

Originally posted by Savage99:
I don't buy this explaination: "it is possible it went through without having time for expansion."

That just seems wrong to me.

You may be right. Maybe the opposite is true. There's a lot of discussion going on right now about the monometals not penetrating as deeply at high velocities as they do at lower velocities

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2511043/m/172103442

Ray didn't say whether he had a blood trail to follow, so we don't know if he had a pass-thru on not.

For right now I am lowering my velocities on my 300 win TSX loads from 2950 to 2770 for a 200 grain, lowering my velocities on my 30-06 to 2700 for a 180 TSX, and looking for a new load for my 270 that will be as accurate as the TSX's and will expand/penetrate like the Nosler Partition.


Without guns we are subjects, with guns we are citizens

quote:

There's a lot of discussion going on right now about the monometals not penetrating as deeply at high velocities as they do at lower velocities

This is common with most bullets and not just mono's.

But the statment that the bullet did not have time to expand is not how it works.

And your lowering your velocities! Why?

As to the failure of Barnes X type bullets not to expand besides the quality issues mentioned consider that the tiny hollow point may get closed up by damage from handling or while in the rifles magazine. I have seen many meplats that were really flattened or deformed from that.

Now with most lead filled bullets the jacket is not closed off of course and just a lead filled bullet with a damaged meplat may expand just fine.

But the X type bullet has nothing to yield below the meplat surface once the hollow point is closed just a little. Just bending that meplats cylinder in some for any reason may cause them to close even more when they impact any part of the game let alone a hard spot. This may be another reason why some did not expand.

quote:

Originally posted by Savage99:
And your lowering your velocities! Why?

Mainly because I am looking for Max penetration and pass thru in those 2 calibers for Elk hunting. Why beat myself and gun up by shooting Max loads when a lower velocity load will penetrate further. Have heard that there are usually 2 points at which the best accuracy is obtained with the TSX, one with a lower load and one close to Max. Why shoot the 300 win at 2950 fps (200 grain TSX) when I ran across an accurate load lower down at 2770 fps when I was stairstepping up. The 2770 fps fits my TDS reticle also.

With the 30-06 shooting the 180 TSX at 2850 fps is wearing me and the gun out so will try slower powder and look for a little less velocity and possibly better accuracy, which I am not getting in that gun.

What's the answer to the meplat problem? Buy a meplat uniformer?


Without guns we are subjects, with guns we are citizens

Savage99,

I agree with your theory on why Ray's TSX might have failed. That would make that bullet a needle-point solid.

Bullets sometimes do the strangest things...

I do plan on trying the 168gr TSX in my '06 soon, I've heard so many good reports on it here that I've just got to try it.

I made some tests at 200 yds in a 7 rem mag and could not tell a big difference in accuracy.

Sometimes bullets do strange things, and sometimes animals just don't want to die, despite recieving wounds that should be quickly fatal. Without an animal to autopsy, it is only speculation as to why it didn't die as planned.

If I were loading TSX in a .308 for deer, I'd opt for the 130 gr.

Perhaps a plastic insert in the X type bullets would make them more reliable. For sure it would make the ballistic coeffients believable.

Savage 99,
You may be right, but the bottom line is I don't care what happened, but it did and thats not acceptable regardless of the whys and wherefores IMO...I want a bullet that works from the muzzle to 350 yards...all that other stuff about its good at long distance holds no importance to me, I might get another close shot someday!

I am not condeming the TSX over a single failure, lets see what the future holds..I will let those that use it tell me...Lots of our locals will be trying it out and I will get all the goods and bads at the local coffee shop after deer and elk season...

Ray,

Please keep us posted. I imagine that you will get as much feedback as anybody. I will be trying the 168TSX's (so far it looks like 3000-3050fps) on a couple Elk hunts and will be sure to post any results as well. This past year I was very satisifed on how the 180XLC's (2900fps) performed on two large cow Elk. I am thinking that a little more speed from the 168gr bullets can't be bad and if they are as accurate as everyone says then that can't be bad either.

Deke.

for what its worth, I just tried RL22 with the 168TSX and the 180XLCBT in my 30Gibbs, I got 3050fps with the 168's and 2948fps w/the 180's, the 180XLCBT will get the nod over the 168TSX if it shoots 1.25MOA or better which I did get with my previoius load of H414, the 180's performance on Elk in the past has been very good