I'm looking for some good information about loading the .357 Mag and .454 Casull for hunting. I'm thinking of the following:

180 XTP/Nos Part, 15 grs. W296.

300 XTP/Nos Part, 32.5 grs. W296.

Any thoughts?

Regards and safe/happy shooting, AIU

The 454 load looks to be about max.

What gun are you shooting the 357 mag load out of ?
My loading manuals list 13.3 - 13.5 as max
I have seen loads listed on the web to 15.0 grs link
I would be real careful if you chose to load over 13.5 gr
ONLY for very limmited use and by a seasoned hand loader with all his fingers
IMO only in TC Contender,GP 100 ,Freedom Arms
A big MAYBE in a S&W 27 ,Dan Wesson or BlackHawlk
NEVER !!!!!!!!!! in a S & W K or L frame ,Taurus,Colt or other revolvers.
IMO 15.0 gr is pushing the 357 a bit much , if you need the few extra fps ,use a larger hand gun.

Johnch

johnch, check out the latest Speer manual 13 - they have silhouette loads for the .357 Mag listed up to 15.9 grs. of W296 with the 180 gr. TMJ-Sil (14.3 grs starting), and 16.1 grs. of H110 with 14.5 starting. W296 is H110 - identical powder made by same manufacturer. Moreover, they claim they are within the SAAMI limit of 45,000 CUP.

Also, the Lyman manual (48th) lists 14.9 grs. W296 with a 180 JTCSIL giving 42,000 CUP. Comparable H110 data is 13.9-14.5 grs.

For the 454 Casull Speer lists 32 grs of W296 with 300 gr. bullet and 34 grs of H110 (same as W296) for 300 gr. bullets.

What do you think of these loads? Any thoughts?

Regards and safe/happy hunting, AIU

Is that a .357 AI you're talking about?

I don't have the new Speer manual .
What is the COL listed for the loads you are looking at ?

BUT I know Speer did used to list several different loads with different COL.
From my memory the 180 gr TMJ-Sil has a long nose .
They listed 2 sets of loads that would fit on a revolver and a set for TC use only.
One was a trimed 357 mag case.
Two was crimped past the crimp grove ,on the radis of the bullet nose.
The third was crimped into the crimp grove with a full length case.( this load will not fit in revolver cylinder)
1.590" is the normal COL for a revolver round.
TC loads can far exceede this.

H-110 and 296 may be made by the same company ,but the 2 powders are not exactly the same IMO.
Load data are NOT interchangable !!!

Please check and post if I remember right ,they may have changed the bullet design.

Johnch

AIU, Check the text in the #13 they state the loads are meant for TC Contenders, other single shot pistols or revolvers with heavy frames and long cylinders. The COL is 1.680" and is too long to function in a standard revolver cylinder.
I`ve reported it before, my father damaged a M19 with a starting load in the Speer #10 manual of 15.5gr of H110 under a 158 gr Speer HP and the the following Speer books have all stopped below this load as max ever since. I`d be sure to start low and follow the book recommendations exactly if you plan on trying these loads.

IMO win 296 is a dirty burning powder when I am done using up what I've got I will try something else btw IMR 4227 is also dirty burning.

quote:

Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:
I'm looking for some good information about loading the .357 Mag and .454 Casull for hunting. ...

Hey AIU, What will you be hunting?

6-shots at 75-yards.
Firearm: Ruger Blackhawk in .357 Magnum
Optics: Ruger open sights
Case: Remington
Primer: CCI-550
Powder: 14.5 grains of 2400
Bullet: Sierra 158 grain Jacketed Hollow Cavity
Velocity: 1222 FPS @ 15' from muzzle

Also, the Lyman manual (48th) lists 14.9 grs. W296 with a 180 JTCSIL giving 42,000 CUP. Comparable H110 data is 13.9-14.5 grs.

The OAL listed by Lyman for the above load is 1.585 inches. Lyman lists other loads near 45,000 CUP. For example, 14.9 grs. 2400 with a 158 gr jacketed HP (1.59 OAL) - 1279 fps/41,800 psi. Also, 8.5 grs. N340 with a 146 grs. jhp (1.59 OAL) -1212/45,000 CUP.

These are HOT loads recommended for revolvers, not just the TC.

Regards, AIU

AOWM,,What are you using those powders in? No joke about the 4227,,looks like you poured sand down your barrel after shooting it,,,glad I bought a pound and not a keg.Clay

AIU You might want to try some LIL-GUN for your 454. I'm wroking up a load now with 32gr over a 300gr LBT hard cast bullet. Still tweaking the load but it shoots clean.

Craven

quote:

6-shots at 75-yards.
Firearm: Ruger Blackhawk in .357 Magnum
Optics: Ruger open sights
Case: Remington
Primer: CCI-550
Powder: 14.5 grains of 2400
Bullet: Sierra 158 grain Jacketed Hollow Cavity
Velocity: 1222 FPS @ 15' from muzzle

I've got to get glasses. I have pretty good vision and my pistol open sights cover the whole target at that distance.

Reloader

Then I suggest you do a little work on sight alignment and sight picture.

FWIW, I like my own 180-grain TC cast bullet, pushed with 14 grains of AA#9 and a CCI-500. I shoot it out of a 357 Redhawk. It is a screamer, and a one-hole load at 50 yards (but these 50 year-old eyes need a Leupold EER 2X to make that happen...).
And before everyone jumps all over me, I know that is well in excess of the max load in the AA books. I can't help it. It just shoots too well, and the cases aren't even sticky.

Does anyone know to what PSI or CUP Con Bon loads their ammo?

This is my data:

.454 Casull (Super Red Hawk Rugar) 7.5†barrel

W296… 28.0 300 XTP 1357
W296… 29.0 300 XTP 1430
W296… 30.0 300 XTP 1515
W296… 31.0 300 XTP 1623/1583/1568/1568
W296… 32.0 300 XTP 1609/1581/1654/1598/1601/1623/1559/1648/1639 No sticking
W296… 32.5 300 XTP 1529/1633
W296… 33.0 300 XTP 1605/1634
W296… 33.5 300 XTP 1639

W296… 31.0 300 NOS 1634/1608
W296… 32.0 300 NOS 1659/1703/1665/1650/1648 No sticking
W296… 32.5 300 NOS 1702/1720

W296…35 260 SPEER 1727
W296…36 260 SPEER 1791

.357 Magnum shot in Rugar 3’’ barrel

W296… 13.0 180 HXTP 1011
W296… 13.3 180 HXTP 1033
W296… 13.6 180 HXTP 1058
W296… 14.0 180 HXTP 1071
W296… 14.3 180 HXTP 1110
W296… 14.6 180 HXTP 1139
W296… 14.7 180 HXTP 1100
W296… 15.0 180 HXTP 1154/1131
W296… 15.3 180 HXTP 1180/1168 [556 ft.#]

W296… 14.7 180 Nosler hp 1236 [610 ft.#]
W296… 15.0 180 Nosler hp 1227 [600 ft.#]
W296… 15.3 180 Nosler hp 1260 [634 ft.#]

Factory loads with same gun and same chronograph:

Ultramax 158 1196 [501 ft.#]
Con Bon 140 1293 [519 ft.#]
Con Bon 170 1215 [556 ft.#]
Win 180 1075 [461 ft.#]

The 180 Nosler loads are too hot, but the 180 XTP max load is getting roughly the same energy (hence roughly the same PSI) as the 170 Con Bon factory load. The 15.3 gr. load should not be at higher CUP than the Con Bon 170 factory, because W296 is a very slow burner - correct? I've noticed that different weight bullets when loaded to the same PSI will produce nearly the same kinetic energy.

Any thoughts?

Regards, AIU

quote:

Originally posted by AOWM:
IMO win 296 is a dirty burning powder when I am done using up what I've got I will try something else btw IMR 4227 is also dirty burning.

Yes, yes they're dirty powders indeed and IMR 4227 seems to be the worst, however I have found a stout crimp help much.
I've used 16.0/16.2 grains of WW-296 and Hornady's 158 XTP for years in a 6" 686, and have no trouble. Stout indeed, but it works and flies at an honest 1370 FPS. I have loaded as much as 17.1gr of 296 safely, but the big blue flash and shorter case life is too high a price to pay and one is much better off with the 16.2 grain charge.