There can be as much as a 10% variance in different lots of the same powder. My friends and I have loaded many rounds for different cartridges over the years and found there is a difference in powder by as much as 10%. For example: In my Mark V 300WBY, I load a 180gr TSX in front of 84.5grs of RL-22. Now before anybody panics please read the rest before responding. Yes, this load is 4.5grs over book. Now I just did not jump up and say ok I will load 4.5grs over book and put my face and possibly my life on the line! I worked up to this load. When I got close to max load for the book I began to go up a half grain at a time checking my pressures by measuring the base of my brass after I fired each round knowing I would stop when the base expanded .0005". As I worked up a half grain at a time there was little to no expansion and primers looked fine and no shinny spots on the base of my brass. I began at 83grs to get expansion and that let me know I was getting close. At 84.5 I had expanded .0004 and decided to stop. Now why did I stop and not go up until the base expanded to .0005? Well, I had already reached outstanding velocities of 3287fps on the average and excellent accuracy and saw no need to continue. This was a very cool lot of RL-22 and here are two targets shot with this load to illusrate why I stop and did not need to push any further. The first one is a group size of .334" and the second one is a group size of .1005"





Now to make my point, I tried a different lot of RL-22 and could only reach 81.3grs when the base of the brass had expanded .0004. This was a hotter lot of powder and did not have as good accracy as the other lot at the same pressures as seen in the following target which was a grooup size of .542"



I would advise anyone who is reloading to work up. Have you ever wondered why at times your favorite pet load when you bought a new lot of the same powder did not give you the same results. Well it is possible that your new lot is hotter or cooler than the last lot you used. Please do not use any of my load data stated above with out working up because your lot could be as much as 10% hotter than mine was. Now I know some will think this is just anecdotal experience. Please work up to max and start over with every lot of powder, just a suggestion but it might be worth consideration. My gunsmith said he fixes or throws away a lot of rifles and pistols that were destroyed or ruined by hand loaders.

I agree... Reloder Powders have really gotten quite variable.

quote:

Originally posted by beartooth:
There can be as much as a 10% variance in different lots of the same powder. ...

quote:

Originally posted by Terry Blauwkamp:
I agree... Reloder Powders have really gotten quite variable.

+2

Exactly why I quit trying to make RL Powders work. Even in the same Lot as you approach MAX, the variation in Pressure Indications is just more than I want for my cartridges.
-----

It does make me wonder "why" the people that praise and recommend the RL Powders don't see the same variation.

I tried it in maybe 12 rifles, and gave what was left of it to a buddy. He tried it in 2 rifles and had so much variation he thought I was pulling a Joke on him. He gave what was left to a third guy who also saw the variation in his rifles.

May have been 20-25# of Powder used by us.

Best of luck to you RL Powder users.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by beartooth:
There can be as much as a 10% variance in different lots of the same powder. ...

quote:

Originally posted by Terry Blauwkamp:
I agree... Reloder Powders have really gotten quite variable.

+2

Exactly why I quit trying to make RL Powders work. Even in the same Lot as you approach MAX, the variation in Pressure Indications is just more than I want for my cartridges.
-----

It does make me wonder "why" the people that praise and recommend the RL Powders don't see the same variation.

I tried it in maybe 12 rifles, and gave what was left of it to a buddy. He tried it in 2 rifles and had so much variation he thought I was pulling a Joke on him. He gave what was left to a third guy who also saw the variation in his rifles.

May have been 20-25# of Powder used by us.

Best of luck to you RL Powder users.

Hotcore, what do you like as a consistent powder?

[QUOTE]
It does make me wonder "why" the people that praise and recommend the RL Powders don't see the same variation. /QUOTE]


Hi, Terry, glad to see you again....

Maybe they can reccomend those powders because they follow the advice that has been given to reloaders for about the last 80 years..."when you go to a new lot of powder, drop your load and work back up to maximum for THAT LOT in your specific rifle(s)"?

BTW, it has been a complaint for at least 45 years that I know of that Nobel powders originating in Scandanavia, such as Norma and the Reloader series, seem to vary more than the accepted North American norm from lot to lot.

Still, the same thing happens in many other powders to a lesser, or similar, or even greater extent. Take, for example, the World War II lots of IMR 4895, some of which burned about like 3031, and others of which were almost identical to 4350. ...Or H-4831 and IMR-4831 (both 4831s were produced by the same folks originally).

Ditto, all the differences in recent AA-2230...as in 2230, 2230-C, 2230-S, etc.

Or, how about the older lots of H-4895 vs. IMR-4895?

The plain fact is that if a person runs at mid-level, below max loads, he can pretty safely use different lots without having to do an awful lot of load revision.

BUT, if the reloader is one of those folks who says..."Oh those pussys who write the loading manuals always list max's that are 4 or 5 grains too low, just to be safe..." and so jacks his loads up over book max, THERE is an disaster waiting to happen if he uses different lots without working his loads up again.

When one considers the differences in powder lots, bullet jacket hardness, rifle bores and chambers, etc., etc., etc., you really have to wonder sometimes where the minds of THOSE folks are if they do not work up their loads for every new lot of powder they get.......

Basically, I personally think all rifle powders are about as safe as the loaders who use them.

quote:

Hotcore, what do you like as a consistent powder?

I'm not loading for the 300Wby, so I can't give a recommendation there.

When I look at my Powder Shelf, I see mostly Hodgdon, then IMR, then Winchester. I also had some Accurate and Norma at one time, but have either used it all up or gave it to buddies wanting to try it in their Loads.

That is not to say that "some of these Powders" don't exhibit variation in Pressure too. Trying to think of some examples.

I had a M99 in 300Sav that had all kinds of Pressure fluctuations with IMR-4320 and 150gr Nosler Solid Base Bullets. Switched to IMR-4064 and it settled right down.

I'm pretty sure one of my old 7mmRemMags disliked IMR-7828, no, I'm sure of it. When it first came out, IMR-4831 and H4831 were the slowest Powders below H870. There were glowing reports in the Gun Rags back then about how IMR-7828 had been developed especially for the 7mmRemMag and now it was finally being released to the public. That particuler 7mmRemMag never liked it and showed high PRE variation. Back to the 4831s and H870 and it settled right down.

So, even with the Powders I use the most, it seems that some of them, that should work well, just didn't do well - in some of my rifles. They may work great in someone else's rifle though.

I really tried to make the RL Powders work for me. RL-15 should have been great in 308Win and 7mm-08. And RL-19 & 22 should have done well in a 243Win, 7mmRemMag, 270Win, 25-06 etc. But there was just too much Pressure Variation for me.

Best of luck to all you folks.

quote:

Originally posted by beartooth:
RL-22.

What more need be said?

If you want your belted magnum to run like a scalded dog, feed it IMR 7828!

Guess I must be one of the Lucky RL users.

I had used MRP for years. I never had trouble never saw more than 25-30fps swing from hot to cold.

I did switch to RL22. The first batch was several grs hotter than MRP. My second batch loaded exactly the same as MRP. I bought several 5# jugs. I load several difference rifles and cartridges with it.

Tried every powder I have for the wife's 7x57. RL19 gave the best accuracy and velocity combo.

As I look to the powders I normally use anymore. 4895, 4064, RL15, RL19 and RL22. Oops I do stick 7828 in my 7STW. That doesn't mean I don't have another 10-15 opened cans that have been tried for various projects.

Maybe I don't have the variation because I try and stick around a max of 63-65,000 and I also don't use highly compressed loads.

Hey lucky can beat good.

Who mentioned 10 % variation in powder lots ?.

What planet did this person fall from ?.

I worked for Hercules Powder Company !. More than a 3% variation in any of the total sum of components would have resulted in a Wash !.

In other words it would have been used in another mixture say for 20 or 40 MM rockets or something else after being prepped that is .

Think of powder like US currency or the Powder Manufactures like the treasury Dept. . Every powder manufacture puts certain trace elements into their mixtures ( It's The LAW ) so it can be identified by experts ( FBI CIA NSA ) if it's ever misused !!.

Primers are held to a demanding standard on Match any way 2 % mixture variation is Maximum allowable .

Woppers are at your local Burger King !,
leave them there .

Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

quote:

Hercules Powder

That "2400" and Blue Dot gets a good bit of use by me too. Used to use a bit of Red Dot 50 years ago.

quote:

Originally posted by Dr.K:
Who mentioned 10 % variation in powder lots ?.

What planet did this person fall from ?.

I worked for Hercules Powder Company !. More than a 3% variation in any of the total sum of components would have resulted in a Wash !.

In other words it would have been used in another mixture say for 20 or 40 MM rockets or something else after being prepped that is .

Think of powder like US currency or the Powder Manufactures like the treasury Dept. . Every powder manufacture puts certain trace elements into their mixtures ( It's The LAW ) so it can be identified by experts ( FBI CIA NSA ) if it's ever misused !!.

Primers are held to a demanding standard on Match any way 2 % mixture variation is Maximum allowable .

Woppers are at your local Burger King !,
leave them there .

Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

One way to make money is to sell surplus bulk powder and give it a canister name.
Hodgdon got started re-selling IMR surplus for 10 cents/ pound.
Now Hodgdon owns IMR and the price is $15.00/pound.