I just brought a new revolver a Souer & Sohn snub nose, in cal: 38 SP. I wonder if someone have loads for heavy bullets like 170 to 180 gr.
WihtaVuori N-110? (for bears)

Well, I used to load 9 grains of Hercules 2400 in my 38 SPecial cases with RCBS 200-grain .35 Remington flatnose cast lead bullets. MV was around 850 FPS. I have used as much as 12 grains of 2400 with 173-grain Keith semi-wadcutters in .38 Special, and 15 grains in the .357 Mag. with the same bullet. These are HOT LOADS, and must be approached from at least 5% below.

I don't know what VV powder is similar to 2400, and new Alliant 2400 is faster than the old Hercules version.

quote:

Originally posted by 220 swift:
I wonder if someone have loads for heavy bullets like 170 to 180 gr.
WihtaVuori N-110? (for bears)

220 Swift, for your intended use....you might consider going with a lighter bullet in the .38SPL.

Have you considered a bullet like the new Barnes XPB 140gr. ?

.357 140gr. Barnes XPB Pistol

Lead bullets will be your best approach considering pressure/velocity/penetration. Don't know what is available in your area for handloading or if you do that, so you may wish to consider casting your own. I'd recommend you look to a Keith style, if not design, and an alloy no softer than wheel weights...preferably a good bit harder. A 180 grain bullet of that form should penetrate well, and stabilize properly if your twist is normal by US standards. If you can get 800-900 fps using such a bullet out of your snubbie call it a good day.

Any gun is better than none, but the .38 spcl. is a bit challenged by bear size targets.

quote:

If you can get 800-900 fps using such a bullet out of your snubbie call it a good day.

DD, I think a 180 gr. at 800-900 fps from a snub .38SPL (even at +P+ pressures) is unrealistic.

In any case, .220Swift, you'll want to use a PISTOL powder. N-110 wouldn't be a good powder for ANY bullet weight in a .38 SPL snub.

Velocity is not always the answer to penetration capabilities....

IN a 38 Special, I'd rely on any good load in the 600 fps range or less using Hornady's 158 grain XTP bullet....

Recoil doesn't equate to lethality, but it can hamper a shooter of good shot placement....which can hamper lethality....

If it is so big that a 158 grain XTP is not going to do a job, believe me, one needed a LOT bigger gun in the first place! By then it is too late to be realizing it then!

good luck,
cheers
seafire

148 gr Hollow Base Wad Cutter seated backwards on top of some unigue will handle bull frogs to ass holes...no problem!!

quote:

DD, I think a 180 gr. at 800-900 fps from a snub .38SPL (even at +P+ pressures) is unrealistic.

That's what happens when you start thinking instead of doing. It is not an unreasonable expectation to seek such velocity from the .38 Special when using lead. 800 fps is a walk in the park with 148 grain DEWC and HBWC over about 3 grains of Bullseye...a very mild load. 5-5.5 grains will take you up into the +P pressure range, and another 30 grains of lead won't make that much difference in velocity. In fact the same velocities are no problem with 158 gr. RN lead. The bullet described in my previous post will penetrate better than a JHP in any case.

The Hornady 5th Edition lists their 158 gr SWC at 900 fps, and Lymans 47th lists a 160ish gr RN with a dozen powders or so in the high 800 fps range, in one case 890 fps. None of these loads are at +P pressures. In normal pressure loading the .38 special gives up 100 fps or more in velocity to jacketed bullets, and in any case expansion of either type bullet is going to be marginal.

Some day when you've reloaded and shot the .38 as much as I have come back and tell us what you've found out. Until then, go study up some more...

Snub nose (I'm assuming about 2" bbl.) ..... 800-900 fps .... 180 grain bullet.... 38 SPL?!!!

Lyman data uses a 4" vented fixture..... and THEY DON'T USE A 180gr. bullet (which has to be seated further back in the case to fit OAL)!

You trying to blow up this guy's pistol, DD?

My S&W is a 2", I have a Chrony, Blow me.

quote:

Originally posted by 220 swift:
I just brought a new revolver a Souer & Sohn snub nose, in cal: 38 SP. I wonder if someone have loads for heavy bullets like 170 to 180 gr.
WihtaVuori N-110? (for bears)

Since you are in Norway and mentioned N110, you might consoder N340 or N350. They are better suited to the capacity of the 38spl than N110, unless you plan to load to 357Mag pressures...especially in a short barrel gun.

For a bear defense pistol in a top quality firearm you could consider loading to that limit...just don't practice much as it will probably damage the firearm (and your hand ) after a few cylinders full!

I have to agree with the others though, that is well below the power limit I would consider using for a bear...even with extreme pressure rounds. Get a .357Mag or bigger and use the .38 for practice...4" barrel minimum too.

quote:

Originally posted by DigitalDan:
My S&W is a 2", I have a Chrony, Blow me.

Oh, DD?!! What load do you use in that 2" .38 SPL snub of yours with those 180 gr. bullets to get 800-900 fps?!!!

Please,....... do tell!

I've got a K-Frame S&W with a 4" barrel, some 180gr. LSWCs and a chronograph. Waiting with bated breath for that 'magical' load!

O-o-o-p-ps! Oh, this IS Reloading. Thought I'd landed in the Crater.

Use 3.5 gr. of Unique and bullets cast from Lyman mold #358430, a nominally 195 gr. bullet.
it duplicates the old 200 gr. .38 Spl. Police load, is accurate and recoil from a snubbie is quite mild. It's been years since I ran some over a chronograph but going from memory, velocity from a snubbie was about 700 FPS and a bit over 800 FPS from a four inch revolver.
The bullet has a rather bluff round nose and the load has been quite accurate in every .38 Spl. I've shot with it.
Paul B.

quote:

Originally posted by Gimpy:
O-o-o-p-ps! Oh, this IS Reloading. Thought I'd landed in the Crater.

Gimpy, I have very little patience for those who recommend unsafe loading data!

The factory +P LHPs with 158gr. bullets (Winchester/Remington/Federal/Speer) in .38 Special will deliver right around 800fps in a 2" revolver. This is at (+P) 18,500 - 20,000 psi!

These loads tested from a 2" barreled .38 Spl. revolver:

Win 158gr lhp+p 798 fps
Rem 158gr lhp+p 788 fps
Fed 158gr lhp+p 801 fps
Blazer 158 lhp+p 772 fps

I think I shamed the above poster into silence. Because he will not post 'his load' data that gave him his claimed 800-900 fps from a 2" .38 Spl. with a 180gr. bullet!

Or maybe he put down the crack pipe!

As much as it goes against my better judgement to argue with someone who enjoys it sooooo much...

quote:

Win 158gr lhp+p 798 fps
Rem 158gr lhp+p 788 fps
Fed 158gr lhp+p 801 fps
Blazer 158 lhp+p 772 fps

1 factory load
2 factory load
3 factory load
4 factory load

You're showing your inexperience DM. I have yet to see the factory load that I can't safely better with good handloads. Old cartridges like the .38spl can be improved a lot! Modern good quality handguns in 38spl can handle +p+ and then some too. A steady diet may loosen them up, but they aren't gonna grenade on you!

I'm the last one to recommend unsafe practices, but for a last ditch backup close quarters defense load (bear protection, remember) DD's recommendations are not THAT bad.

220 Swift: If you are thinking about a defense load, you might also want to think about flash. You can load some very effective loads with VVN340, 3N37 and N350 as well as some similar powders from other manufacturers. I'd would be more inclined to use a 158 gr JHP over the 170 & 180s, but I be even more inclined to use 125 and 140 gr. JHPs with a safe maximum load. Looks like we have a nice little debate going on here, but defense ammo needs to be a little more specific than someones favorite plinking load and kinetic energy is a useful physical property of defense ammo in any caliber. Some use the faster 110 gr. JHPs for this reason and Cor-Bon has a +P 115 gr. load that uses a 9mm 115 gr. JHP. If you like Cast lead, the 158 gr. +P SWCHP is a favored load and was formerely used by the FBI when they carried the Smith 13 (357 Mag.) With jacketed loads, the best stoppers are in the 125-140 gr. range with as much velocity as possible. Do that with VV 3N37, Ramshot True Blue and even AA#5 and you will also keep flash at a minimum, Flash and nightime shooting can sometimes be a negative thing! If you want to use a heavier bullet, these powders along with others will work. I only use low flash ball type powders for defense loads. Ramshot Silhouette, HS-6, AA#7 are a couple of more. The higher velocity and pressure you go, the more tendency extruded flake powders have in flashing! For plinking and a lot of handgun hunting loads, they're fine. Work your loads up carefully, Most load manuals include +P data.

quote:

Originally posted by CDH:

1 factory load
2 factory load
3 factory load
4 factory load

You're showing your inexperience DM.

CDH, I used these FACTORY loads to show what velocities you can expect from a 2" barreled revolver at 18,500-20,000psi with a 158gr bullet!

CDH, I notice you and DD have failed to come up with the "magic load" that will deliver that promised 800-900 fps with a 180gr. bullet from a 2" revolver. NOW WHY IS THAT?

Are you guys "Clark's" replacements? He used to like to recommend "blow-up" loads. But he actually had the nerve to post the data!

Come-on, CDH! At least post the load data for your "magic load"!

Bump!

Still looking for reloading data for that 800-900 fps load with the 180gr. bullet from a 2" barreled .38 SPL revolver!

GOT DATA?

Although I promised myself I would never get involved with bear defense threads, I do know a little about squeezing more power from a 38 sp.


There is no published data, but LIL'GUN gives the most velocity from a 38 special that has graced my chrono.

With a 10" barrel, 357 mag, 158 GR. HDY XTP 1.580", Hodgdon says:

quote:

H110 16.7 gr 1591 fps 40,700 CUP

LIL'GUN 18.0 gr 1577 fps 25,800 CUP

That LIL'GUN load is more like 38 sp +P+

quote:

Originally posted by tnekkcc:
Although I promised myself I would never get involved with bear defense threads, I do know a little about squeezing more power from a 38 sp.


There is no published data, but LIL'GUN gives the most velocity from a 38 special that has graced my chrono.

With a 10" barrel, 357 mag, 158 GR. HDY XTP 1.580", Hodgdon says:

quote:

H110 16.7 gr 1591 fps 40,700 CUP

LIL'GUN 18.0 gr 1577 fps 25,800 CUP

That LIL'GUN load is more like 38 sp +P+

tnekkcc, I assume you aren't recommending these for loads in a revolver designed for .38 SPL.

Personally, I don't think hot .38 SPL loads are the way to go in a .357 Magnum firearm.

quote:

Originally posted by DaMan:


tnekkcc, I assume you aren't recommending these for loads in a revolver designed for .38 SPL.

Not for the novice, and especially not for liberals like you.

tnekkc; Having read your posts for some tim would you explain; How it was the Liberals that burnt scientists at the stake for such heresy as saying the sun did not circle a flat earth that was only 5000 years old.
Good Luck!

quote:

Originally posted by hawkins:
...How it was the Liberals that burnt scientists at the stake for such heresy as saying the sun did not circle a flat earth that was only 5000 years old. ..

Hey Hawkins, Could you clarify that statement? Or is it some kind of a question?

220 Swift-
My experiences with V-V powders have been great and 3N37 is a dandy as well as clean and economical.
If memory serves correctly, the British used a 200 grain bullet in 38 calibre, but I don't think it was great either as they eventually went to 45 calibre side arms.
It is my opinion that the 357 magnum is the only 38 that can be depended upon to expand 38 calibre H.P. bullets. If it is expansion you seek, try swaged full wadcutters. At 650f/s, they will decimate racoons and vermin, other than that, I like hard cast lead bullets ranging from 148-158 grains in weight.