While on the subject of Lee Lock rings
(Willmckey)
I've never been sure how they were supposed to work.

Ok...Once the die is adjusted to your likes, I understand that you finger tighten the lock ring which compresses the O ring and pretty much locks the die in place for the moment.
However:
How do you maintain the die adjustment for future reference?

With normal lock ring dies (either set screw or collar tightening) removing the die from the toolhead by turning on the Die itself (not the lock ring) will maintain the lock ring to die thread relationship and enable you to just screw the die back into the toolhead at some future time and depend on the lock ring fixed in position on the thread to bring the die to a stop at the proper position within the toolhead.

I dont see how you can attain this feature with the Lees.
Once the Lee die is removed from the toolhead, the O ring is no longer compressed and the "lock"? ring will spin freely on the thread thereby loosing the lockring to die relationship and the adjustment with it.

Again , while on the subject...Do I remember correctly that you are supposed to remove and replace dies in the toolhead by turning on the die body only (not the lockring)once the lockring is set to the threads.
ie
Adjust Die to proper height turning on die body
Tighten lock ring
Set lock ring screw
Remove and replace die from then on buy turning on the die body only.

Is that right ?????

well to be honest i'm probably not achieving repeatability. i always tighten the nut w/ a wrench and loosen w/ one which means i lose all frame of reference anyway.

partly i do this as i don't actually expect it to repeat anyway for the reasons you named. all it takes is accidentally moving the ring relative to the die body and you're undone. i just take the mindset i'll have to resest every time.

granted, not the best way. what i was actually thinking of was that the o-ring held adjustment DURING reloading. i wasn't clear on that. compared to conventional lock rings i just don't trust them - whether it'd work or not - so i don't even pretend to. they're just so cheap (and so am i) that i put up w/ it.

maybe i should give them a chance but i just don't get a warm fuzzy that when i pick them up 6 months later that ring will still be in the same place so i just assume it isn't.

I just chuck the Lee lock rings. Except for the o-ring which seems marginally useful (to float a die), I have never caught onto the idea of the Lee rings. So out they go... Just like the cylindrical Lee die storage containers, what a totally hopeless design! Try fitting as many of those as possible on the shelf where you keep your dies...
- mike

The Lee idea is to design the press, dies and shellholders so that the shellholder makes firm contact with the base of the resizing die when the ram is raised to the top. Therefore, in theory the lock ring is only needed to hold the die in place for the current reloading session, since it is not needed for establishing headspace.

Surprisingly, this seems to work most of the time. I have 7 sets of Lee dies, and only the 6.5x55 set had to be adjusted to avoid headspace problems. Even more surprising, my RCBS, Hornady and Lyman dies work with the same type of set-up, provided I remember to use Lee shellholders. Now, I am inherently lazy, and hate adjusting dies if I don't have to. My solution was to buy a Lee turret press for sizing. Once the die (by Lee or anyone else) has been set and locked down in the turret with the Lee O-ring lock ring it never has to be touched again (unless I accidentally loosen it while taking the expander plug out for a cleaning session). Those cylindrical Lee die storage boxes are perfect for storing a loaded turret in. A kitchen lazy-susan that my wife was throwing out turned out to be the perfect item for storing these boxes on; it fits perfectly under the small table I have on top of my bench to get my scale up near eye level, and a quick turn brings up the right turret. There is one potential problem with my set-up, and that comes from having three different sizing dies in a single turret. So far I haven't made a boo-boo, though it was close once; I was raising the ram on a 257 Robt. case when I realized that it was heading for my 6.5 die

For bullet seating I use a small C-frame press. This is where I use the RCBS, Horanady and Lyman lock rings. I adjust the seating dies to crimp or not crimp, as the case may be, and then lock them down and theoretically never have to adjust them again (the set screw on the RCBS rings seems to have the habit of loosening). These dies I store in the rectangular RCBS type boxes.

Cheers, Al

mho, please send me your Lee rings!

I don't find that setting a screw in a conventional die lock ring leads to repeatability. What I find is that once set you use a lot of torque to loosen the die, and usually the lock ring is loose anyway after the fact. What I do find with the Lee rings is that once adjusted, and set finger tight, they contribute a great and positive influence on the reduction of run out. I suppose that they allow the die to float a bit, but whatever the case I load a whole bunch straighter ammo when using conventional dies and the Lee lock rings. I also find their bullet seaters much more precise as well. That's the "dead length" seater BTW. They are not going to displace really top end dies and such for highest quality loads however. JMO.

That is all.

i haven't used any of mine several months and in actually "thinking" abt it, i run the die down against the shell holder (and as pointed out works in all mine, esp as in most i cut the chamber to match that), then tighten the lock ring w/ a wrench and upon removing, don't touch the die, rather back out the lock ring w/ the wrench and the die comes w/ it. then just don't touch it afterward. but next use i still redo.

mostly is luck and good planning that die against shell holder is where it needs to be set.

I just use 2 lock rings on each die.

Take the o-ring out of one and screw it on the die with the o-ring groove facing up.
Then install the second lock ring (with o-ring attached) in the normal fashion.

Adjust the die to where you want it and lock the top ring down onto the bottom ring with a couple of spanners.

The die will never move in relation to the lock rings.

All you have to do is be consistant when torquing the assembly down to the press. I do it as tight as I can using my fingers only.

Too easy.....

Cheers,
Boof.

The Lee lock rings are quite good - if you use them correctly. In other words, RTFM!
My procedure is as follows:
Adjust die in press
Tighten locking ring
From then on, only use the locking ring to turn dies in/out the press - if you use the die body, the adjustment will slip, true - but not if you only torque the rings. Yes, it works and like quite a bit of lee stuff, you need to do things slightly different.

On Lee dies a referance mark can be made on the die body with a sharpie type magic marker which lines up with a casting seam or mark on top of the press body. If you hold both the die and lock ring when turning and align the marks everything ends up awfully close. Works well for me.

maybe on the 1st set i bought i did read the manual and is why i install/rmv using a wrench on the nut.

one reason i usually want my dies against the shell holder is i usually have multiple rifles in same caliber (not so much anymore as am trying to have fewer and shoot more) and didn't care abt the last nit in accuracy or case life enough to go to hassle of different batches of reloads for each. i wanted minimum sized brass that'd work in anything.

I use lee dies and the marking of the lock ring and die body and turning them both down together works real well. I hav enever used a wrench on a lee die and they work well.

If you really want to keep the lock ring from moving, you could drill the side and tap it for a set screw.

I never had problems with the lee dies, the o-ring seems to keep the lock ring from moving so long as you use the lock ring to loosen/tighten the die.

One way I have always had good preformance with lee dies is I always insert my dummy round with proper bullet depth in the press and raise it before screwing the die down. The ring is backed off just enough to let the die seat on the bullet and then hand tighten the lock ring. Works every time.

I flipped the nuts upside down so the o-ring is on the top. That way the rubber doesn't drag on the press and they hold their adjustment a lot better this way.

quote:

Originally posted by mho:
I just chuck the Lee lock rings.

This makes the most sense to me. Although I have a bunch of them laying around! I remove them except for carbide (or rimmed non- bottleneck) sizing dies for full length sizing as well as their cast bullet sizing dies I like rather well. I have used them for spacers with the "o" ring out. A bag of Forster's split lock rings are well worth the money and if tightened securely will not slip with any amount of hand pressure.
I don't think I ever seat bullets with the Lee dies, just using the sizer and/or neck expanding die. But then I have the luxury of duplicate sets in almost all calibers.
The "o" ring so called lock ring just lacks the precision I like to put into my work when it is needed.

BigRx

On RCBS dies, I remove the set screw, drop in a #6 shot and the replace the set screw.

This usually secures the lock ring.

You guys can use all those tricks, or just throw away all your defective rings and replace them with Hornadys.

None better.

What HP Shooter said! Hornadys already have flats for your wrench, and are otherwise similar to forsters, but made of a little better grade of metal. once your die is dialed in and you lock the Hornady ring up, you just take your die in and out with whatever pressure you want, the ring isn't gonna move. I mark my rings and my press and turn the die in with strong hand pressure until they're lined up and off you go.

Fish, Hornady lock rings are miles better than Forsters for two reasons. One is the lack of wrench flats on the Forsters. Two is the fact that Forster rings use slotted screws to tighten, while Hornady uses hex head cap bolts. I have stripped the screws on Forster rings with torque that does not faze Hornady rings.

I simply do not understand why only Hornady gets it.

quote:

Originally posted by Fish30114:
What HP Shooter said! Hornadys already have flats for your wrench, and are otherwise similar to forsters.

I will agree on Hornady too! I have had trouble finding the Hornady rings as of late, and much prefer the allen head lock screw they use.

BigRx

quote:

Originally posted by Boofhead:
I just use 2 lock rings on each die.

Take the o-ring out of one and screw it on the die with the o-ring groove facing up.
Then install the second lock ring (with o-ring attached) in the normal fashion.

Adjust the die to where you want it and lock the top ring down onto the bottom ring with a couple of spanners.

The die will never move in relation to the lock rings.

All you have to do is be consistant when torquing the assembly down to the press. I do it as tight as I can using my fingers only.

Too easy.....

Cheers,
Boof.

I had the same idea, Boof! With the variation that I take that dumb o-ring out of both! Then it's easier to adjust the die to the best spot. Then hold the bottom ring while tightening the top one and you're there!

Who sells Hornady rings seperately? Midway don't have them as a seperate item.

quote:

Originally posted by grizz:
Who sells Hornady rings seperately? Midway don't have them as a seperate item.

They most certainly do. That's where I get mine. If you forget where they are, just type sure-loc on their search window.

Hornady Sure-Loc rings at Midway USA

Thanks HP, I went through their die parts area, couldn't find them.

HP, you're right, I don't know why others are snoozing on the lock ring situation, especially the other die manufacturers. I've replaced the original ring on every die I've had with the Hornady's.

When Midway is out, just go to Hornady's web site and buy them direct. I've gotten a couple batches like that.

Regards--D

Has anybody tried the Hornady rings in a Forster Co-Ax press?? Supposedly they work, but I have always used Forster rings since I got my Co-Ax. As mentioned above, the Forster ring is a bit flimsy, in particular the locking screw. I was wondeing if the Hornady would would be a viable alternative, or just a compromise??
- mike

The dies I am concerned with the installation depth for are my bullet seating dies that also crimp. For those, I dont want to crimp, so I set them up and use 2 lee locking rings to hold the position. I took the locking rings from my tactory crimp dies which I dont lock down. All of my other dies I adjust the installation depth every time and repeatability is not a concern (collet neck sizing, or full length sizing) THe dead length seating die is not important to hold consistency also. These are all Lee dies though. I agree, the Hornady design is simple and straight forward, but the "issue" if you want to call it that, doent merit any money to be thrown at it for my concern.

Mike, the Hornady rings work just fine in my co-ax, better than any others.

Cool thanks! I'll have to try them out. Now, let me see, where did I put those Hornady dies I'm not using anymore....
- mike

quote:

Originally posted by mho:
...the Forster ring is a bit flimsy, in particular the locking screw.

How so?

quote:

Originally posted by martinibelgian:
The Lee lock rings are quite good - if you use them correctly. In other words, RTFM!
My procedure is as follows:
Adjust die in press
Tighten locking ring
From then on, only use the locking ring to turn dies in/out the press - if you use the die body, the adjustment will slip, true - but not if you only torque the rings. Yes, it works and like quite a bit of lee stuff, you need to do things slightly different.

A common sense answer to a problem only created by not following the advice. Used as they were designed they work fine.

quote:

Originally posted by RSY:

quote:

Originally posted by mho:
...the Forster ring is a bit flimsy, in particular the locking screw.

How so?

RSY, have you used the Forster rings?? I like them, and (until now) I have used them exclusively for my Co-Ax press. But that does not mean I can't their weaknesses. In particular, the lock screw seems to be made of aluminium, just like the rest of the ring, and it is a bit flimsy. You have to be a bit careful when you tighten it, not to strip out the head. Was that what you asked??
- mike

Heres my solution to the Lee lock ring. The steel hex nuts were by far the cheapest and least time consuming. The brass ones look great though. The wrench is made from a Cat 3500 series engine oil pan. I used a piece of a copper washer cut small enough to fit in the threaded hole to prevent the set screw from boogering up the die threads.