I reload for .223 & .22-250. Started out FL sizing and then tried the method of bumping back the shoulder .002" with the same FL dies. Seemed to get better groups in both calibers. Now I would like to try neck turning and using bushing dies. Both of my guns have factory spec. chambers and I will be using fire formed brass. Both Ruger M77 MKII's.
My question: Will I need a cal. specific die for each cal. or possibly just need specific bushings for a single .224 die? In other words can I use the .223 bushing die "body" to size .22-250. Thanks in advance.

Fishin' Magician

I must be cofusing.
When using a bushing die to size the neck of a .223 can I then use the same bushing die to size .22-250, or do I need to get seperate bushing dies for each specific caliber?

Fishin' Magician

The correct answer is "maybe".

Bushing dies are a bit more complicated than just selecting a bushing size. The size needs to be appropriate to your brass and chamber.

Check out the Forster bushing sets where they prepackage three different sizes. You will see that the largest bushing for the 223 is packaged as the smallest bushing in 22-250.

These dies are great but I doubt that you will see enough benefit for the cost to make it worthwhile in your Rugers.

I use them with good results but in target grade rifles with neck turned cases and lots of other case preparation.

I believe you would be much better off with the Lee Collet neck sizing die. My experience is that for standard chambers this is the way to go most of the time.

You answered my question. Thank You. Sorry for not asking it very well.
I'm getting consistant 5 shot groups of .875 to 1.25 MOA with the .223. The .22-250 not quite as good being up to 2 MOA. Started late in life and always trying new reloading methods. I look at it if I ever get better rifles I'll have the equipment to fine tune their loads.
You mention Forster bushing and Lee collet neck dies as being good choices. Do you have any experience with RCBS bushing sizer dies, pro or con? I try to stay with RCBS because of their customer service. They have come thru a couple of times on things that were clearly my fault so I don't mind paying a little more for green boxes when I can see the advantage.
I will be expermenting with neck turning also. Went with the Forster handheld setup. Didn't realize RCBS even sold one until after I purchased the Forster. Actually I went with recommendations from this forum. Some recommend .001" tension, others more and some less. Where is a good place to start?
Any comments or help will be appreciated.

Fishin' Magician

quote:

Originally posted by Ozzie:
These dies are great but I doubt that you will see enough benefit for the cost to make it worthwhile in your Rugers.

"Varmint" rifles shooting groups of 1.25 to 2 MOA need more important things than neck bushing die sets to improve groups.

Neck bushing die sets are right at the lower end of the spectrum of diminishing returns. They might make a difference when you're trying to get better from your 0.5 MOA rifle but I really doubt that you will see much difference in yours.

How are you going to tell if they helped if your groups vary from 0.85 -1.25 MOA on any given day.

The answer is maybe.
Selecting a bushing size is best done by measuring two or three dummy rounds (after all brass prep). Then subtract .002" or .003" as your primary bushing size. You may find that the 223 loaded rounds may actually be a little bigger than the 22-250 or the other way around. Depends upon the brass you start with.
Most suggest you have at least a 2 or 3 bushing bracketing so you can increase or reduce the amount of neck tension. This will likely also provide the correct bushing for both cartridges.

muck

PS Ozzie has a great point!
Most factory varmint rifles will usually shoot better than 1MOA. Not to say there aren't any that don't. But to find two that shoot as poorly as you indicate is really bad luck.

Didn't think I stated these were varmint rifles. Reviewed my posts and by golly I didn't and they are not. I shoot at the range off of sand bags. I thought 1.25 MOA was very good for my .223 for what money I have in it.

Maybe if I bought a 200.00 rest I could get these groups to respectable size. Then I could just mount this rest to the hood of the Jeep every time I go coyote huntin'. I have to admit I'm not even close to being a good shot but I have to LMAO at some comments from you Special Forces Snipers.
I asked about bushing dies/not a critique of my rifles. These Rugers could very well shoot .375 MOA with a good static rest and a trigger release. Is this practical? I don't think so. I would rather try and become a better shot, and beleive me there's plenty of room for improvement.

Fishin' Magician

You should email Redding Reloading http://www.redding-reloading.com/ to know for sure. To just neck size only, you could possibly use a 223 neck sizing bushing die, as it maybe shorter than the 22-250 die (a guess) BUT the body diameter of the 22-250 is much larger than the 223. So i am guessing using 1 die for both will not work. I use a FLRSing Type-S Redding Bushing die. With factory chamber i fine sizing only 1/2 of the neck(243win) gives better accuracy as this unsided area expands to the factory neck chamber. It takes about 3 firings. The Lee collet dies might make more sense for you cost wise. as you need about 3 bushing for each caliber. http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/faq/index.cgi

Forster BBK2141, 223 Rem - Bushing Bump Neck Sizing Die & 3 Neck Bushings, $106.00 ... This would not work (a guess) for both caliber as the die "bumps" the shoulder. It comes in contact and pushes the shoulder back .001" to '002"

I did put "varmint" in quotation marks. Never said that your rifles were varmint models. However without starting a pissing match, 223 and 22-250 are varmint calibres and a 22-250 that's 2MOA won't reliably hit rabbits past 100 yards so you may as well use a rimfire.
If you are going after larger animals with varmint calibres then you owe it to the animal to improve your aim either through marksmanship or your equipment, whichever needs it most.

Handloading just for the sake of it is fun, I own just about every gadget ever made, but bushing dies are low priority.

You said " I have to admit I'm not even close to being a good shot". Can I respectfully suggest that you need to spend the money you were thinking of using on the bushing dies on more components instead and practise, practise, practise.