OK, I have to load for my Ruger No. 3 and all the reloading data that I see is to the 40,000 CUP (43,000 PSI CIP) limit for the Krag-Jorgensen, (1892 Springfield).

Since this is the only 30/40 gun that I own, are there any issues running it at 50,000 - 60,000 PSI?

The empty case has 58 grains (H2O) of capacity which is slightly more than the 308 Win case at 56 grains so I figure that it should perform at 308 velocities.

Does anyone have a source for pressure tested loads?

Hodgdon's 26th manual has "30-40 heavy loads for modern rifles". The load data shows powder charges and velocity, but no pressures. I guess a guy could run their #s thru Quickload and get maybe a pretty close idea of pressures generated ?

In short no. Lyman #47 has Ruger #3 loads but are still conservative. I started towards the top end of there data in combination with quick load as a starting load. A 30-40 in a Ruger #1/#3 will run with the 308 Winchester velocity wise IMO. And will probably be faster with the heavier bullets 180gr +

Here's some actual data that may help. https://sites.google.com/site/.../ruger-3-30-40/150gr

I havent worked with my Ruger #3, its actually a Ruger 2.5 as much as Ive liked. I hit on a dandy load with the 150gr Sierra BT and Big Game right out of the gate. Velocty was 2700 ft/sec. Does it have more juice, yes sir, but I found a great load and concentrated in that area when I shot the initial OCW work up. The 165gr Sierra BT is looking promising too.

However use Fireformed brass for load work ups it will effect your registered velocity.
Why;

Notice anything? Both fired cases measure out to SAAMI specs, both the Ruger and Krag fired cases. The new cases dont. I dont have any other new cases to compare to the new RP cases. The new Winchester cases are the same as the new Remington cases.

Tests to show the differences between new and fired cases. Same everything but new cases and fired/resized cases.
Effect;
Temp: 65 degrees
Chrony: Magneto Speed.

New 30-40 RP brass
CCI200 Primer
150 grain Sierra BT
COAL 3.08
IMR 4895
45.0gr- 2531fps
46.0gr- 2598fps

Fired/FL Sized 30-40 RP brass
CCI200 Primer
150 grain Sierra BT
COAL 3.08
IMR 4895
45.0gr- 2686
46.0gr- 2717

Difference;
45.0gr: 155 ft/sec
46.0gr: 119 ft/sec

Also Winchester and Remington brass are different weights and effect velocity further
30-40 Brass weights (unprimed)
Winchester: 170.1
RP: 160.8

First load work up (OCW) with 150gr Sierra BT/Big game




Sight in later that year.



I try and stay around a quickload 52K and havent had any pressure problems.

There are articles by Barsness, Hagel, and another guy. Pop me your email and I'll send you and scanned copy. However by very leery of Hagels and the other guy's loads. I think they're nuts.

Here's Barsness' article
https://gunsmagazine.com/the-30-40-krag/

Here's Hagel's insane data



Here's Lyman #47 Ruger #3 data.

Forgot about Hodgdon #26
As a comparison my Ruger shot a test load of 180gr Sierra Pro Hunter @2278ft/sec loaded with 45 Grains of H414

Oh and juiced up 30-40 loads in that #3 will let you know it has a metal butt plate after while.

The limiting factor with hotter loads with the 30-40 is the strength of the brass and how its made.

Meaning measure the base expansion just above the rim before and after firing.

Simple Trick for Monitoring Pressure of Your Rifle Reloads
www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloa...e-your-rifle-reloads

Example below .303 British cases fired in the same Enfield rifle. The Prvi Partizan case on the left has a larger base diameter, the case walls are .010 thicker and has a thicker rim. Meaning the Prvi case is made "heavy duty" like a Lake City 7.62 case.

PaulH

The shoulder location of the unfired cases in your photo is because the shoulder location on rimmed and belted cases.

Below a new unfired "rimmed" .303 British case in a Wilson gauge that drops way below the SAAMI shoulder location.

The shoulder location on rimmed and belted cases is not critical because the case headspaces on the rim or belt and not the shoulder.

quote:

Originally posted by bigrdp51:
PaulH

The shoulder location of the unfired cases in your photo is because the shoulder location on rimmed and belted cases.

Below a new unfired "rimmed" .303 British case in a Wilson gauge that drops way below the SAAMI shoulder location.

The shoulder location on rimmed and belted cases is not critical because the case headspaces on the rim or belt and not the shoulder.

You misunderstand what I'm saying. Im not talking about where it headspaces at, which is on the rim of the 30-40 case. That has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. The difference in velocity from unfired and fire formed cases is what I'm talking about in concerns to load development in barely chartered territory. As you can see +100-150 ft/sec difference from an unfired to fired case of the same make. Take that for what it's worth, but that is "my" guide line.

Sake of conversation (example);
I determine with quickload that my minimum start charge for Big game is 46.5 grains est @39k (vel of 2561 fps) to a max charge of 51.0 grains est@52K (vel of 2816 fps). I fire a few test loads at the start charge to be sure. I load up the spread of loads in whatever increments you feel comfortable (.3, .5,etc) in new unfired cases. I arrive at my max with no overt pressure signs whatsoever. I find loads shooting between 50.0 grains (vel of 2750fps est@48,600psi) to 50.7 grains (vel of 2800fps est@50,800psi) is a sweet spot. So I load up some of the just fired resized cases and head to the range.

By the data I showed above I will take a +120 ft/sec difference between fired and unfired cases, though I dont know that at the time. I didnt fire my start charge with an unfired case and a resized fired case. My chrony now reads the 50 grain load blasting across it @2879fps at an estimated psi of 57k. Normally a sane person would say WTF and stop here. Lets say we dont and get all the way to the 50.7 grain load now registering @2922fps at an estimated psi of 60k. I say problem and dancing with the devil.

Had I fired both the start load in fired and unfired cases I could have determined the velocity difference and adjusted the test loads accordingly. I guess my advice to the OP is be careful in barley uncharted load data. the 30-40 is capable but be methodical about it.

My load for the 150grain sierra BT is;

Bullet: 150gr Sierra BT,
Powder: Big Game
Charge: 49.3
COAL: 3.08
Primer: CCI200
Case: RP Case (Fired Resized)
Velocity: 2726fps
Quickload est. 46,524 psi.


The 165grain sierra BT is;

Bullet: 165gr Sierra BT,
Powder: Big Game
Charge: 47.9
COAL: 3.08
Primer: CCI200
Case: RP Case (Fired Resized)
Velocity: 2630fps
Quickload est. 47,257 psi.

I have eight reloadings on cases and yet to lose a case due to enlarged primer pocket, case head failure, split neck, etc. The Remington along with the Winchester cases are still going strong.

Your difference in velocity is because the new cases needed more chamber pressure/energy to fire form them to chamber dimension, and why the velocity drop.

Also with your Quickload computations did you do a case capacity check of the "fired" cases as per the Quickload directions.

After that you need to adjust the burn rate in Quickload until the velocity matches your chronograph to get accurate chamber pressure guesstimates.

Sorry was still adding more to the post.

First sentence; You got it on the nose.

Second: You know it

Third: We are on the same wave length.


I have used this same method that we are discussing on the work-ups with 165gr Partition/Reloader 17. Which shot like crap accuracy wise.

quote:

Since this is the only 30/40 gun that I own, are there any issues running it at 50,000 - 60,000 PSI?

Why it is a 30-40 not a 308 or 30-06.

I decide a long time ago instead of using over spec loads for a cartridge I just use a cartridge designed for the pressures and velocities I want.

No need to turn a 300 sav. into a 308 a 308 into an 06 a 06 into a 300 mag ect.

Thanks guys for all of the technical information, that's exactly what I needed.

I'm going to play with it at standard Krag load levels right now but I'm thinking of the going the Ruger No. 2 route using the No. 1 stock set (and recoil pad).

Why? Because I can. There's no reason to limit the cartridge because it was first designed to operate in a gun that couldn't use it's full potential if I'm not using it in that original gun.

I have loaded my C.Sharps Hiwall 30/40 up to 308w levels. The problem is that the chamber is SAAMI spec but both Remington and Winchester cases are undersize, so case life is short.

I have tested a lot of loads if you are interested, but most is with Norma11 or Norma19, some Vihtavuori N140 and N150.

168SMK at 2475fps with N11(similar to Re15) for target or 180 Prohunter/Interlock at same speed for moose. Excellent results.

Just for interest on that fine calibre.I have an early Krag/Jorgensen that I built up by jewelleding A LL the the inside pts.worked the stock down to a light weight,then cropped he bbl + crowned the bore,then D+T for a scout scope.This was Col. Coopers idea. BTW,I had 3 deer come into my yard + it took all of 2 seconds to drop all 3.The scout system works.

quote:

This was Col. Coopers idea. BTW,I had 3 deer come into my yard + it took all of 2 seconds to drop all 3.The scout system works.

I have two former military rifles I put scout scopes on to avoid the cost of over the action.

One a 03 30-06 and one a 93 or 95 Mauser in 7x57

Both have 2x leupold's on them. they are fast and work well.

I used Ashley mounts on both a easy cheap way of mounting scout scopes. I would not be afraid to shoot them out to 300 yards.