Hi All,
Well after all these years I have decided to try my hand at reloading 2 9/16ths black powder shotgun shells, and it dawned on me that I don't even know where to start!!!! I want to load 16 and 20 gauge and I have the old Lee loaders in both gauges. Can I use plastic shells? what length do you cut them to crimp for 2 9/16ths shells ( is it just the obvious 3/16ths?) will this now crimp in the Lee loader? How about wads? I have a few in both gauges but I read somewhere that you need a felt wad on top of the powder divider? As you can see I need a drastic amount of help, so maybe someone could direct me to a book that specializes in making up the short shells with black powder. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I currently load for 12, 20, and 28ga using smokeless powder, but use Mec's in all three, I tried looking in my older books but didn't realize that even in some of my 50's books they don't mention the B.P. loads in 2 9/16ths. Again any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance and God bless.

cordell

I have loaded B.P. shot shells years ago and remember only that you do not run black through a powder measure that is not designed for it. I guess its static charges that can make for an unpleasent outcome.

Lot's of blackpowder shell loading info at this site: http://www.tbullock.com/bpsg.html
It gave me enough info to start loading brass shotshells. Hope it helps

The best wad column for black powder is the traditional one - a heavy card [3/32 or 1/8"] overpowder wad, seated with plenty of pressure, then a felt or fibre cushion wad of appropriate thickness under the shot. 'Appropriate' here, is so that there's enough case above the shot level, to form a crimp.

Don't just try to use plastic wads; they take up too much space, and tend to leave melted plastic in your bores.
You can cut off the shotcup, to use that if you wish, though.

Shell trimming - yes, just trim to an overall length of 2 9/16" or 2 1/2". It's easy to make a 'trim die' out of 3/4" waterpipe to speed this job up. One hint though - pick shells with a low base wad - black powder takes up a lot of room! To the point where you'll likely have to use a roll crimp with overshot wad, with these shortened shells.And you'll only get a couple of loads out of plastic shells - I just use empties picked up at the trap range, and toss them after use.

To use the old type Lee loader, you will need to grind/machine down the crimp die length by 3/16" [for 2 9/16" shells], off the die base. These can also produce an acceptable roll crimp, on plastic shells anyway. Slower than a rotary roll crimper, but they work.

Links to a couple of suppliers of these wads, roll crimp heads, etc:
Ballistic Products
Precision Reloading
And another page with some good hints:Circle Fly Wads

As has been said, don't use a smokeless powder measure [or charge bar setup]. Dip measure is fine - the shot measures are a good size! 1 oz for light 12g loads [gives about 2.5 dram of FFG], and so forth. Either FFG or FFFG grades can be used.

The Reloading forum at Shotgunworld has had a few discussions on BP loading.

I've been experimenting with the all brass cases from magtech. They're available from midway, take a lg pistol primer. Empty of course, you have to come up with some different wad combo's to sucessfully load them.







The wall thickness is .065, so a standard 12 ga wad, either plastic or card wad is too small. The wall thickness tapers slightly toward the bottom, so a X12X wad from ballistic products fits snug right where the powder level is. I'm loading smokeless,(17.5 nitro 100), so the procedure would be different for black. I had some fiber wads around for loading specialty loads years ago. 2-1/2 inch fiber wads over the plastic wad. 1 1/8 ounce of 8's and the overshot wad came within an eigth inch of the top..

I did load a couple with black, using a measure made for loading my BP 12 guage muzzleloading shotgun. I just loaded some dupont BP with the measure set at 1 1/8 for the shot. It weighed out at 75 grains. Less fiber spacer wads were needed.

I sent for some 10 guage overshot wads, the 12 guage were a loose fit because the hull is so much thinner. They make a tight fit for holding the shot. To crimp the OS wad in place, I used a brass 8 point crimp starter in my mec 600 jr. It makes a nice folded in crimp.

I plan on testing them today, I'll re-post afterwards, ifin I don't lose body parts in the process.

Grizz
I use an 11ga. overshot wad and glue it in place with elmers. I shoot them out of an old
Barker d.b. damascus twist hammer gun. Fun for rabbit hunting. Didn't know brass cases could be crimped. Is it safe? Wait, after putting my glasses on and looking at the pics you posted, I see the crimp. Looks good as I have had wads
come unglued, leaving me with a pocketful of #6 shot. Wonder if it will affect the pattern any?

BFarkie, thanks for the tip. I may try the elmers white glue idea.

As for the safety of the crimp on those shells, I see no reason why they would be dangerous. It should iron out easily upon firing without damaging the shot charge. I'll let you and others know what happens when I fire them.

I'd like to make a taper crimper for use with these brass shells. I wonder if that "water glass" is still available in drug stores. I'll check the local walgreens!

The car decided to pop a heater hose, so my range trip today ended up at my nephews garage.

Grizz,
Elmers glue seems to secure the wad better for me. I tried water glass. It's a little to runny for my liking. The mixture soaked through the wad and into the shot. This was my first and only attempt at it, so maybe I didn't have the mixture right. I believe I got the sodium silicate at USADrug. Had to order it at the pharmacy window and they had it sent to the store from their warehouse (next day service). When you talked of crimping your brass, I imagined a full folded crimp. I wouldn't think the crimp you have would be a problem. Let me know how they work out.

Hey, ya know what? They go BANG! Well most of them did anyway. The first ones I loaded was using the surplus powder that's supposed to be loaded like PB or Green dot. Those had a definete hangfire. Two of those had a 12 ga nitro card overpowder wad, one hangfired, weakly, the other blooped with the wads clearing the barrel.

I used my ancient 870 slug gun, with a 26 inch cylinder barrel. I only did one pattern at 25 yards with a cyl BBL, it was fairly even, no evidence of a doughnut shape sometimes caused by an over shot wad.

The crimps opened quite nicely, ironed out well. I tryed a couple in a Benneli black eagle. They failed to eject and load the next round. Owner says that it works well with standard trap loads, so I think I could use a little more powder. The load used was for AA shells, which are a shaped, smaller base wad. These have no base wad, being a balloon head case I should use loads figured for paper wads in paper shells. The one I loaded last used the X12X BP overpowder wad, it seemed to seal well. Ignition was positive with the nitro 100, but I may use lg pistol mags next time.

I'll test these more thouroughly at my private range. There I can be undisturbed, usually alone. I'll do more extensive pattern testing along with some chronograph readings.

Hi all,
Thanks for all the great ideas and direction. I have all I need for the 16ga, and am getting ready to order the cards for the 20ga (I have the wads) I will keep you posted during the process. Thanks again and God bless.


cordell