quote:

Originally posted by Gerard:
I do not understand, what is the x51 family?

.308 Win based cartridges (i.e. 7.62x51).

quote:

Originally posted by k-22hornet:

quote:

All copper bullets are really hard on the rifling

Why do you say that?

Please don't feed the canadian idiot.

shootaway is the joker who brought forth the idea that no Remington 7mmMag can have a barrel life greater than 500rounds before it's totally shot out. (But ignores the 7mmSTW and 7mmRUM



AD

The 7mmSTW and RUM are like bell bottom jeans.

quote:

Originally posted by Gerard:
...As far as being politically correct, GSC has been making copper monos since the early 90s. Not to be PC, but because too many failures were seen with other types, and not just with jacketed lead bullets. To tar all copper mono manufacturers with the PC brush, just because of a particular situation that has arisen in the last year or so is not taking historical facts into account....

Hey Gerard, You are correct, it is unfair to label all Expanding Solids as PCBs.

However, that is what is happening in Califoney. There is also current crop of fools who are trying to convince everyone that a Standard Grade Lead or Jacketed Lead Bullet leave "Human Killing" minute particles of Lead in Game. So, whether we like it or not, that is the way it is going - to use a PCB or don't shoot ANYTHING.

Obviously my refusal to use PCBs will have Zero effect on your business since I don't use any Expanding Solids now from any company. I do wish your company the best of luck, but there are folks who will use your Expanding Solids and others in an attempt to leverage Lead and Jacketed Lead Bullets off the market.

As for me, I still don't need any PCBs, or anything else that is deemed Politically Correct.

Thanks CouchTater,

I see your point. Very few expanding monos will expand reliably from around 1600fps impacts. Even some premium lead core bullets will not do that. Generally, those bullets that work well (expand reliably), below 1800fps and are also good for 3000fps plus impacts, are even scarcer.

Hot Core,
I dread the time when the battle you face now in the USA, comes to us. And I am sure it will come.

quote:

Originally posted by Gerard:
I see your point. Very few expanding monos will expand reliably from around 1600fps impacts. Even some premium lead core bullets will not do that. Generally, those bullets that work well (expand reliably), below 1800fps and are also good for 3000fps plus impacts, are even scarcer.

Most reloaders don't need integrity at 3000+ fps. That's the thing. Few people expect magazine ad mushrooming from 1600 to 3200 fps. But to keep the RUM crowd from badmouthing their premiums, it seems like bullet makers focus on the magnum end of the scale. An enterprising feller might look at the vast army of trogolodytes shooting .308s, 7x57s, .30-06s etc and conclude that there's a rather big market for monolithics designed specifically for the 1600-2800 fps range. Heavy for caliber, streamlined, accurate, etc. Just have to use product line naming and box marking that clearly differentiates your "classic" bullets from your "magnum" bullets. If I started my own bullet company, whether lead & gilding or monolithic, rather than have 4 or 5 bullet weights in each bore size, I'd have maybe 2 bullet weights and 2 velocity ranges. Hint hint.

quote:

Originally posted by duckboat:

quote:

This, to me, is code for "so give up the fight and let yourself get screwed". Sorry, but I don't buy it.

You screwed yourself if you voted for a candidate that opposes the 2nd Amendment. You don't need to buy it. You already bought it.

If you believe I voted for the Democrats. you need to go re-read my posts. I cewrtainly did NOT.

What I said was to tell your Congress-people you voted for them (whether you did or not)and to then tell them you will help getthem voted out of office is they vote for any anti-gun legislation. If enough people tell them that, they will be much less cocky about thingking they have a mandate.

On the other hand, every person who sits on his ass and doesn't do anything is in effect saying "I don't care what you do to gun owners", hich will only encourage them to listen to the anti-gun sealots in their ranks.

Don’t call your representative today. A politician doesn’t have a memory any longer than their teeny tiny little “you know what’s†(if they have one at all). Wait until they’re in debate over legislation.

CouchTater,

quote:

An enterprising feller might look at the vast army of trogolodytes shooting .308s, 7x57s, .30-06s etc and conclude that there's a rather big market for monolithics designed specifically for the 1600-2800 fps range. If I started my own bullet company, whether lead & gilding or monolithic, rather than have 4 or 5 bullet weights in each bore size, I'd have maybe 2 bullet weights and 2 velocity ranges. Hint hint.

Like this, maybe? The nice part is that the mechanism works especially well in fast magnums also.

Gerard,driving bands are not needed for big slow moving bullets.Swift-A-frames are extremely accurate in big bore cartridges despite their sticky copper jackets.

Like this? 416 Rigby at 300m



More here.

However, drive bands are not primarily for accuracy. They help, but the main purpose lies elswhere.

Just because Hornady comes out with a no lead bullet doesn’t mean it will shoot as well as Barnes. There are a lot of manufactures that make different jacketed bullets and everyone has there own opinion on what is best. I don't see where this is any kind of doom for any company just another choice but that is my opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by Gerard:
CouchTater, Like this, maybe? The nice part is that the mechanism works especially well in fast magnums also.

Yeah, like that, only less expensive per bullet than a Kruggerand.

quote:

Originally posted by MickinColo:
Don’t call your representative today. A politician doesn’t have a memory any longer than their teeny tiny little “you know what’s†(if they have one at all). Wait until they’re in debate over legislation.

To be effective, we probably need to both write and call, probably both write now and call when legislation is introduced. We need to plant the seed of them suffering bad results if they vote anti-gun, as soon as possible. Because of the back-room dealing before legislation is introduced, waiting until it IS introduced is likely too late for us to start. Then after it is introduced we need to reinforce that potential negative result in their minds periodically as appropriate. A one-time effort will likely not help us get what we need.

Pricing:
Let's see. Take a 150gr 308 Win and compare.
Northfork $77.00/50
Barnes MRX $75.00/50
GSC HV $65.00/50
Woodleigh $53.00/50
Swift A Frame $52.00/50
GSC HP $49.00/50
Berger $40.00/50
GSC SP 40.00/50 (137gr Match Bullet)
Barnes TTSX $38.00/50
Nosler E Tip $32.00/50
Nosler Partition $31.00/50

Given that GSC HV and HP bullets expand reliably from 1600fps, up to whatever speed you want to use them, have no accuracy issues, are precision turned (no concentricity issues), have the best gas handling properties (less throat wear) and so on, I do not think we are doing too badly. A Gold Standard, arguably, but not quite Krugerrand price.